I don't follow your comment. Ask who? I knew why the guy did it, as I had never dealt to him before the tourney. He dropped the chips as I was dealing a hand, so I didn't even realize what was happening until he was done and thanking me. It all happened very quickly. Are you saying I should have asked the player why he did it (I knew) or are you saying I should have told the supervisor I had no idea why he did it?(that would be a lie, so that's not happening). Sorry, I'm just not sure what you're suggesting.

If the rule is the rule, I don't think the answer would have changed. Of course, hypothesizing about a player dropping a stack of black is fun, but has as much chance of happening as a player dropping a stack of 1k chips in my box.

I'm saying there's a difference between "he told me it was for the tourney" and "there's no doubt in my mind it was for the tourney." The latter could possibly something else, particularly if you're a female. Again, if he dropped $2k in your box and thanked you for the rush of cards that cashed him $50K, then I wouldn't be surprised if the interpretation of "rule" changes slightly.

I'm a dealer and have mostly dealt tournaments. I used to hate hearing stories of other dealers pocketing tips rather than turning them in because 1) I always turn those tips in and 2) I'm usually not the one getting those tips in the first place. I'm the efficient robot players often say they want, but don't reward because they didn't even notice I was there.

I have changed my tune a bit, though. In reality those are usually not tips that would otherwise be in the pool. Maybe sometimes a player will reduce their intended tip and give the balance to a specific dealer but I suspect most times that is on top of what they'd normally give. It also improves the player's overall experience. They feel good about putting that money where they feel it should go.

That's what bolt was saying. So you agree with each other that the player is creating a situation where the dealer could steal from his coworkers.

The key point to this has been made .. If the Dealer knowingly accepts a tip from a tournament player then those tips should be put in the pool. I would tend to agree that the player who did a 'fly by' after a tournament score might lead a Dealer to want to make sure that they handle the tip appropriately for the room. But if I pull up to a cash table 2-6 weeks later and unload a large tip or two without comment I don't think I'm putting the Dealer into any marginal position. If the Dealer wants to go above and beyond what they are deeming 'normal' behavior, then that's up to them.

BLACK CHIP STORY .. Was sitting at a 1/2 table and a player was leaving to go play a tournament. As he stood up a black chip fell back onto the table and sort of rolled towards the Dealer. Dealer (and half the table) notify the player ... Dealer even says "You don't want to leave one of those behind." Player picks the chip back up and says "Well, I guess it wants to be with you since it rolled your way" and then tosses it back!!

The Dealer is stunned and doesn't even want to touch the chip. Calls Floor. Explains the situation. Dealer really doesn't want a Black Chip in his toke box. I volunteer to exchange the chip for red and all is good ... followed by the slot machine sound of all 20 red birds clinking into the toke box. GL

Answer,

Why didn’t the dealer want the black chip?

The last thing a Dealer wants is to draw attention to their toke box .. even green chips can raise eyebrows 'in the back' when they go to cash out. It really shows that their job is important to them .. It's not like they are making change, so a black chip tip would be extremely unusual in this room . GL

PS .. not sure why a spike in reds wouldn't draw just as much 'interest' but working 20 reds into your box 'that don't belong there' would certainly be tougher than a 'random black'.

Black chip tips are rare and the dealer is probably worried that management will think it was a mistake or theft. I've actually been told to call the floor and get approval before dropping a black chip. Will I? Probably not. I'll just make sure the chip and the act of me confirming it with the player are clearly visible on camera just in case. I don't want to do anything to discourage that type of tipping

20 reds in a shift is much more common and not likely to raise a red flag. We'll occasionally get those tables where reds are flying at us like crazy. Not often, but it happens especially if there are high hand promotions going.

This is what you (and he) said: "...he's making that dealer an accomplice in theft from his coworkers."

Which he obviously is not doing. The dealer is either a straight-up thief (accepts the tip or keeps the money) or he's not (declines the tip or gives it to the supervisor). He is most certainly not an accomplice to theft, so I stand by my original comment: "Lol, accomplice in theft from coworkers."

That said, 100% changing the scenario to "creating a situation" where the dealer "could" steal from his coworkers, then sure - similar to a grocer is creating a situation where I could steal a candy bar by having small loose items around the store.

YELLOW CHIP STORY

I was dealing a $25-$25 PLO game with a mandatory button straddle several years ago to a group of very generous recreational players. These guys would play once a week and wouldn't let outsiders in the game. The play was fast, loose, and loud, and $10K+ pots were the norm.

The default tip at this table was a red bird, and green bird tips weren't at all uncommon. Obviously, the dealers all loved this game and 30 minutes at the table could turn a mediocre shift into a great shift, tip-wise.

The guy in seat 1 was always difficult and wasn't very kind to the dealers. He was known for berating the dealers and cussing them out when he wasn't running well and he would often "forget" to tip even when he was running well.

On this particular night he was in seat 1 and was in a good mood. On a couple of occasions when he won a pot, rather than throw me a chip, he'd drop a chip into my tip box instead, which was located between him and me (just to my left). Midway through a hand he noticed that he was missing a yellow chip ($1000) which I was able to confirm, as he only had 1 of them on the table, along with several stacks of black and green. After looking for it under the rail, on the floor, etc. I suggested that maybe he'd dropped it into my tip box.

Sure enough, a supervisor opened my box and there was the yellow chip, right on top of the rest of my tokes. Now that it was back in his possession, the rest of the players tried to talk the player into "hooking me up". I sat there quietly, doubtful that he'd be convinced of any tip above and beyond standard. Right as one of the players commented, "I'd probably give the dealer a black chip... the least you could do is give him a green..." the guy in seat 1 slid a red chip my way.

I'm sure I still had a phenomenal 30 minutes at that table and a great night for my tips. I do miss that game.

The casino I worked at didn't have a line for anything over $25 chips when you fill out your toke sheet at the end of the night. If I was ever tipped a black, I'd probably change it with the rack and drop green or red.

This is why we think you are being ridiculous. You will reward an unprofessional jerk (which he can control) for you winning pots (which he can't control), but punish a professional dealer (which he can control) for you losing pots (which he can't control).

Maybe this will help you out: The tip is not a reward for that specific hand. The tip is a reward for providing a fair and efficient game, and custom is that the player who wins the hand takes that turn to pay the dealer. If the dealer isn't providing that, they aren't entitled to the reward.

This! Pretty insane that only maybe 10% of players think this way. Also add time as a more important factor than the size of the pot imo.

I won an 800 dollar pot plus a 140 dollar high hand. Is a 25 dollar tip good enough? What’s “standard”

$10 would generous ($5 for each).

I always tip more for promos. I probably would have tipped a red for the pot and another 10 when I got the high hand money.

that's very generous

What does everyone tip on that anyway? I hit a high hand for $1k on Monday and tipped $50 (+$2 when I scooped the pot and +$5 to the dealer who paid me the $1k when they finally got around to it). I wasn't sure if I was being cheap or generous.

There's an entire thread dedicated to it. Anyways, for me it depends on who dealt it. I be damned if I give some of those dealers a proper tip while others would be handsomely compensated.

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Personally....I give $50-$100 when I hit the $500, depending on if it's a dealer I like or just a random. I give $25 when I hit the $100. I've never hit the 1k.

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That was very generous of you. I'd do the same if it were one of my friends who deal or if it were an excellent dealer.

Indeed. I would take great joy in stiffing the one dealer at my "home" room who sucks, while I'd be equally happy to give a hefty tip to the many excellent dealers there.

You must not play much to not know that this (10% tip) was in the 95th percentile+ for tipping. Scroll back 10-20 pages and read this thread and you will see the full gamut of opinion ... especially when it comes to promotional winnings (HH, BBJ).

Thanks for the post .. come back more often. I'm sure that all those involved appreciated your actions!! GL

1) What % of the dealer's effort directly affects the outcome?
2) What % of the dealer's mandatory duties affect the outcome?

1) Dealer can put down cards faster or slower; in this hand the fractional microseconds time X average hourly win rate = faster efficiency proportionate relationship to win rate, but 0% as to which card comes off.

2) Dealer is required to deal all cards, but does not get to decide which card comes off, so again 0% to influence outcome.

In other areas where/when you tip, does tippee have ability to affect desired/improved outcome above/beyond requisite duties, then tip has incentive for both tipper and tippee and proportion scale can generate tip% relationship with regard to value of increased efficiency/satisfaction of desired result.

I believe tipping of poker dealers is entirely gratuitous hence the term, gratuity, and has little or otherwise no relationship to value of expected outcomes; the perception of 'luck dealer' is correlative, not causative.

I'm an admittedly Terrible Tom at the poker table - I just stopped tipping poker dealers as whole beginning about 5 years ago.

But a dealer I know socially outside the 'box' and for whom I have purchased many drinks when we socialize, did ask if I wanted to be dealt in even though I was talking with my friend at the nex table. She can deal right past me if she pleases. The smaller BBJP was hit ($25k) and at six handed, my split was $1,562.5.

Suffice it say, I took her and her sister + my gf out to nice dinner (4 course Prix-Fixe) along with all wine and cocktails. Bill is $880 for four + gratuity ($220), so I think she makes out better.

And in most cardrooms, dealers have to tip out a percentage to the floor which is just another thing I don't understand?

1) Isn't dealer required by state gaming commision to provide fair game to start with?

2) Doesn't house, as employee performance standard require/urge/promote efficiency of dealer as this directly affects/helps rake drop which is House's primary way to generate revenue (food and beverage sales being secondary)? Yes, this is also good for player, but dealer employee is already motivated to do this as job performance evaluation criteria, so rewarding performance of standard expectation above previously agreed upon compensation says what about expectations of future performance of standard expectations?

3) Hasn't dealer, in the process of agreeing to employment agreed to a specified wage for which Player has no (individually direct) influence, i.e. I don't tell the house what the pay rate should be and I don't tell/force dealer what rate of pay they should accept?

4) Where I play, there is no specification within gaming commission regulations that states, I, as player/patron, am responsible in any way/shape/form for payment of wage to dealer.

5) If the dealer isn't performing to standards as outlined/defined by their job description and performance review, then isn't it incumbent upon House to determine continued retention of dealer employee and/or set expectation of all dealer employees in same job class? Player satisfaction being one component of individual dealer employee performance evaluation?

I am still of the belief that since dealer has no ability to effect outcome to my desired satisfaction, that tipping on that basis is absurd.

I don't tip a dealer because I want it to be sunny tomorrow and then when it is, I give them X based on % of cloud cover? Dealer has no affect!

Also, I may be a little over-jaded because I have had the experience of dealers pre-making change* and then giving me dirty look or saying something under breath when I am pushed pot that is more than their two week paycheck - this attitude of entitlement and expectation really disgusts me, which is one among the several reasons why I stopped tipping dealers.

* Back when I played 20/40 and the occasional 40/80 with $10 checks, since we paid a time charge, the pot was always homogenously the predominant chip, no changemaking for rake was needed. Yes, dealers had trays to make change so players could toke servers and the like, but several dealers would constantly prematurely (in anticipation) make change 'for convenience' when they have no business doing any extra handling of the pot's chips in the first place. And since dealers didn't move their own trays, just toke boxes, the floors were responsible for monitoring the hold count, so much more difficult to track individual errors in hold which were usually overages and rarely deficits meaning that dealers took too many chips out of pot...maybe 'forgetting' to put change back in...I never knew what happened to all the overage, whether it was used to even the total floor count/and just went to the House? But this just simply means dealer errors result in less player money on felt in play and to be won.