We have had them here longer than I have played here so I never went through this. But also here I am going to guess is it one awarded every six months. So one dealer is getting one BBJP tip every several years on average. That isn't a large raise.

Assume my $1500 in tips is average and it is twice per year into a small room with twenty dealers...3000/20=150 per year average raise or eight cents per hour raise for a full time dealer working 2000 hr per yr. that is not a large raise

Never heard of a BBJ that is only awarded every 6 months...

Well that is about the average time here. Currently two rooms are at $200k plus ( well plus actually). One of those is approaching one year and the other had a good back up so only just over six months. Another room is at $70k at ten months. They shifted strategy after the last one to push more of the drop into immediate pay promos so theirs is only growing very slowly. Theat is also a lower volume room. The fourth room recently was hit, about six weeks ago, so they are only $45k. So right now if all were hit the would avg over $150k. Of course we could go on a run were we star hitting every month at every room, just isn't what has been typical.

You know the line .. "Depends on the room." Quads v Quads is tough to hit ... See Motor City Casino (Detroit) which is approaching $800K right now with at least 5-7 tables running 24-7 and probably 20+ tables running 'a lot' of the time. This is well over 6 months. MCC has pledged some changes when it does hit .. probably going to a HH or something. They do have a 'mini', which is AAAKK losing to quads and that one does hit about once a month. What stinks about that one is that's it's not 10% of the BBJ as it has it's own feeder jackpots.

Then you have Turtle Creek (Traverse City, MI) .. "Quads Lose" ... It's been over 4 years since it hit. At best they have 3 tables running cash.

Milwaukee has a "Quads 6666 Lose" to start and then it drops every $50K ... They hit about every 3-4 months.

My AAAJJ v Quads or better room went almost 7 months 'dark' and it has now hit 4 times in 4 months, plummiting down to only $10K.

You just never know .. GL

^^^ all so true. Btw we are quad fives beat, both cards both hands, min four dealt in and $30 in the pot. Though have not seen the min matter since even at 4-8, bet raise call on the river will get there as long as both started with at least 15.

This is a question that I feel is very important. Some people are very generous while others don't tip at all, ever.

I'm pretty sure it's known to most, if not all poker players, that us Dealers work on tips.

I feel that some players think that tipping will cut into their profits. While this is technically true, it's amazing to me when I see these same players tip the cocktail waitresses $2-$3 for a bottle of water. It just makes little sense to me.

So, that begs the question -- How much should you tip the dealer?

Being a dealer myself, in my opinion, I'm happy with a $1 per pot, big or small. Of course, if it's a big pot then I think it should be a little more, especially if the player is winning consistently and big. Maybe $2-$3 for a big hand. However, it all depends on the dealer's attitude and performance. If the dealer is lazy, slow, making massive errors, and has a less-than-desirable attitude, then maybe they need a reality check in customer service and a training lesson on how to do their job. No entitlement here.

Tipping is something I think is a necessary requirement. It's part of the game. That's how us dealers make our living. Some players are very generous, while others give nothing, even when there is excellent customer service -- something I think is just plain wrong. People tip waiters/servers based on the cost of the meal and level of service. Should us dealers not be deserving of a tip based on our level of service and efficiency? Again, 99% of us dealers are more than happy with a $1 per pot, big or small. It gives us incentive to get more hands out per down.

Dealing poker can be a hard job, especially in a casino where you have to multi-task and deal with many things such as new players, the Bravo system, seat changes, fills, rake, promos, calling chip runners for players, knowing if new players want a hand or want to wait for the button for the pass, keeping track of seat changes, and last but certainly not least dealing with steaming/tilted/rude players while we maintain a professional and cordial attitude.

I understand some players play for a living. However, part of the game is tipping the dealer. If there's no dealer, there's no game. Nobody wants to self deal, not only because it would be a much slower, miserable game, but because a professional dealer will maintain game integrity and ensure that all is fair and on the up-and-up, while enforcing the rules of the game and dealing out much more hands for the players. This would be next to impossible if the players had to do it on their own.

I wish there wasn't the mentality among grinders/pros/semi-pros that tipping is a negative thing. It's something I've noticed working in the casinos. And again, if you're gonna tip the waitress for bringing you a bottle of water then I think it's only right you tip your dealer. Not to mention, when us dealers get tipped properly it really makes us want to deal the best game we can -- as accurate and fast as possible to give a stellar experience to the players. It's a Win-Win. When we constantly get stiffed, it's quite discouraging and in most cases will slow us down. I know this may be a cynical attitude, but most dealers feel that if we are being stiffed then why bust our butts to get out 17-20 hands per down? It takes a lot of effort for us to be on our A-Game on an 8 hour shift the entire time. However, it sure is motivating when we're getting taking care of by the players. It simply makes us want to do our best.

This is an open letter with an invitation for discussion. Some rooms have players that tip incredibly well. Others do not. Maybe it's because some people aren't educated in the way us dealers make our money. I'm not saying we're entitled to anything. What I'm trying to say is that players should take care of the dealer who is running the game and controlling the action in an efficient way, while doing the job properly.

I can say that I'm probably a "B" dealer when it comes to 8-16 Omaha. I don't expect much when I'm at those tables because I have a bit of a way to go before I can say that I'm as good at O8 as I am at Hold'em, PLO, and Stud8. I'm not as fast as some of the veterans at 8-16 Omaha, but I make sure things are done right and I strongly take player feedback into consideration, most certainly when I know they're correct. There's nothing worse than a dealer who thinks they're always right, 100% of the time. We're all human and we all make mistakes from time to time. So do the players. The difference being that we dealers rarely get an apology when a player makes a mistake, and we inevitably get chewed out when we do. I'm talking about small things like taking a second to read a live Ace low or taking a few seconds to read 5 tabled hands on a sopping wet board.

I think a big problem lies in the fact that most players think dealing is easy. It's most certainly a lot of work, as we have to focus on 10 players, their hands, and everything else going on at the table and the podium. Again, such as bravo, rake, seat changes, missed blinds, fills, calls for chips, and unfortunately misbehaving players.

The purpose of this open letter is to get some other views/inputs on this subject. Again. there is no entitlement here. However, I think it's only fair that players do the right thing and take care of the dealer properly. At the very least, be pleasant to the dealer and don't take it out on them when you're stuck/losing. If you go to a restaurant and the service is great but the food is mediocre, you don't take it out on the server. It's not their fault. The same way bad beats/coolers aren't the dealer's fault either.*

This brings me back to my main point. Be nice to your dealers. Take care of them properly. Be a pleasant player. Make us dealers and the other players want to stay at the table. There's nothing more obvious that something is wrong when other players have to back up the dealer when a player is out of line. That behavior is just unacceptable and depending on the room, may or may not be met with a short ban for the troublesome player.*

Even if a player is losing, I still think a tip is in order. We're providing a service, and as long as we are doing our job efficiently, then the outcome of the cards shouldn't make a difference. Especially when it comes to a negative attitude. I'd rather get tipped nothing if the table is having a fun, enjoyable experience, rather than being thrown a tip out of pity while being given a death-stare with comments under their breath.*

All in all, I ask that players please take these points into consideration. Have fun at the tables. Take care of your dealers, especially if they're "A" dealers and/or trying their best to provide great customer service.

Poker is a people game. Be good to your fellow players. You can take their money, but you should always exhibit respect to all players at the table, including the dealer. Berating the dealer or other players is plain unacceptable.

I'd love to hear other opinions/comments/suggestions on my viewpoints. Some rooms are obviously better than others when it comes to tokes. But, I think we can work to change the worse ones for the better. Imagine if there was a mandatory gratuity (for the dealer) on pots, the way restaurants charge a mandatory gratuity on a certain party size. Imagine if us dealers had a share of the drop. How would players feel about that? This can all be solved very simply.*

Do the right thing. Take care of your dealers. Don't stiff them. We work hard and bust our backs and shoulders to run and control a game we all love.

Thank you for your consideration on this open letter. I would love to hear more opinions and advice on the subject.

Thanks and as always, good luck on the felt.

Sorry, but you're whole post reeks of entitlement. You sound very green. How many months have you been dealing now?

Every job has its ups and downs. Yours is that your employer relies on their customers to subsidize the majority of your income. Day-to-day, that's both an upside and a downside.

For your sanity, rather than spending hours writing useless open letters, try one of these two options:

a) When you go to do your taxes, divide the total tips earned in the year by total hours worked and realize this is, on average, your hourly tip rate and ignore your day-to-day results.

b) Get a different job... perhaps a cocktail server, since they seem to be ballin' to you.

I've been dealing 8 years but new to the casino life.

I mean when I play I always take care of the dealers. I get mad when I'm playing and I see someone get shipped a pot and they give the dealer nothing. I'll usually throw them a dollar myself.

It's not entitlement, it's what's right. America screams at you if you don't tip a waiter in a restaurant but nothing is said at the poker table? Makes no sense to me. I guess I just need to tough it out more. Earn the respect of the locals.

Back home I was used to making 2-3x than what it is out here. For people that play everyday, it seems the lower stakes are the best tippers.

I was asking for opinions but if you say I need to cool it then I will take that into consideration. I definitely don't want another job. Just find it odd that quite a few daily, solid players don't throw tokes at all.

I'm also trying to figure out the balance between chatting the players and shutting up and dealing. It seems if I chat and be friendly they tip more.


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Stiffing a dealer is no different than stiffing a bartender, yet many people don't see it that way.

CupOfSalt,

What's the min size pot you would expect a tip for?

Someone asked the Las Vegas Advisor how much to tip on a bad beat jackpot.

Poker pro Blair Rodman wrote their answer:

$12 for a buck in a 2-4 game


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So someone profits $6 and you want a dollar out of that?

Entitled much?

Why did you ask the question if you were just going to rip him for giving an honest answer?

And what 2/4 game are you at where it's heads up from the get-go? If I'm dealing a $12 pot, then it's going to be 5 people seeing the flop for $2 each. On the flop, one player bets $2 and another guy calls. And then they agree to check it down because 2/4 players have some goofy code about never betting against each other when there are only 2 players left.

That's $14, and after I drop $1 in the jackpot and another in the rake, I'm pushing $12 to the winner. He invested $4 and made a profit of $8. And let's face it, agreeing to check it down heads up is collusion, only nobody ever complains about it. But it probably should have been another $4 in profit if he'd bet the turn.

How big do you think a pot should be at a $2/4 game before the winner ought to tip a dollar? Keep in mind that these are all recreational players out there to have fun and to (hopefully) hit a high hand jackpot. And the average buy-in at these tables is $40 or less.

Maybe because he feels his honest answer is not reasonable for micro-stakes players playing to feed the rake and answered honestly? I dunno.

As so many who post in this thread are fond of pointing out.... and this is a summary, not an exact quote...

"Why should I tip more when I when a big pot? The dealer does basically the same amount of work whether I win a $150 pot or a $2500 pot. Either way, $1 for a minute or two of work by the dealer is plenty."

Now flip it to the micro-stakes players. I know of exactly zero $2/4 players who can make a living at that table. I've probably met 1 or 2 in my life who even show a profit over any reasonable amount of time at the table in terms of sample size (and I wouldn't hazard a guess of which 1 or 2 players they might be.) They're all playing to kill time, to be social, or to chase the dream of winning a high hand jackpot or a bbj.

And yet I have to do the same amount of work to deal these players a hand as I do to deal a hand of $25/50 NLHE. In fact, I probably have to do more work at the micro-stakes table because the players are constantly exposing their hands, betting out of turn, and talking about hand-holdings when they shouldn't be discussing the hand at all. So I have to be extra vigilant about doing my job in order to protect the integrity of the game. Why shouldn't I expect to be tipped at the $2/4 table just as well as I am at the nosebleed table? Do I become less valuable just because the rotation sends me from table 11 to table 6 for half an hour?

Or are you endorsing the notion that $25/50 players should tip considerably more than the micro players? You can't have it both ways.

Just running off 1-2, 1-3 home game experience but....

If you win more than the blinds tip a dollar at least for every pot man! If it's above 50, at least 3 or 4, if it's above 100 or more, a fiver man, and if it's that big azz pot of a thousand or more, 25-30 is good.

I'm being serious, no joke. Tip your dealer.

Besides, self dealing yourself while all in and dealing the other guy a 2 outer isn't the most fun experience in the world. TIP YOUR UTHA****ING DEALER

The people who justify tipping $1 on a big pot by saying the size of the pot is irrelevant, you don't do any more work on a big pot than you do on a small pot are usually the same people who justify stiffing the dealer on a smaller pot because now, of course, pot size IS relevant...

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CupOfSalt .. Welcome to the forum? (2015 .. )

This whole thread is an open letter .. all 7194 comments. There are plenty of different viewpoints on this already among the pages here.

What prompted you to move? Did you think it would be better or other? Certainly being professional usually is appreciated by all players. It's a true art to knowing how to handle each table and it's cast of characters. Should you talk at a serious table? Probably not, but there are other tables that need an interjection of energy to get them out of the limpfest/chopping mode that you find them in ... which leads to larger pots and potentially larger tips as you know.

There is no right or wrong answer here .. The comparisons are certainly present with the most common being food service. Why should a waiter at a $100 steak house get more in a tip than at Logan's .. or Denny's?
1) Bar/wait staff typically have to pay taxes on a mandated percentage of their sales by law. Dealers don't have 'sales' tacked onto their gross wages.
2) Bar/wait staff are usually paid well below minimum wage .. may/may not be true for Dealers.

Some players view the 'service' provided by the Dealers as covered under the rake. Why should the players enhance something that is assumed to be provided when they walk in the door. Chicken ... Egg ... Higher rake = Higher Dealer Pay? Probably not.

Some players tip based on the 'service' provided for 'that' hand ... fixed amount. Some may vary the tip based on how long the hand took to complete.

Some players tip more based on the size of the pot won .. Should a player tip more when they successfully bluff a player off a big pot? Should a player tip more when they suck out on the River because the Dealer provided them with the winning cards? Did the Dealer provide any more or less 'service' in either hand?

I can certainly speak of the 'change in variance' at the end of a down when a heater suddenly ends now that the cards are being cut in a different spot. All the mathematical anomalies that we are supposed to ignore can get tied to the Dealer and thus affect the tipping process .. maybe.

Certainly the tipping for 'free' drinks is an interesting comparison. A service was provided ... the player didn't have to fetch their own drink in a supposed effort to remain at the table. The waitress has no 'sale' to be taxed.

This topic has it's own place for a reason .. it's unsolvable, but yet should never cease to create discussion.

Entitled? Perhaps just a case of inflated expectations?

I think if you look through this thread the one residing theme is that Dealers are looking for consistency ... and that is something that humans will never provide. GL

Not sure where you got all that from. Dude asked a question, got an answer, told him it was unreasonable, albeit it a bit rudely, and you accuse him of ripping into him.

My position has always been tipping should be abolished - for everything, for numerous reasons, but since that won't happen, this is my policy:

If a stellar dealer is in the box, he's getting tipped well on everything I drag, and if I didn't drag a pot, the dealer is getting the difference when he or she is pushed no matter how much I'm in the game for. If the hand was technical, time consuming, etc., they're getting more for that. If the down was a difficult one with cheap sour pusses and he or she handled it professionally, they are getting a bonus when pushed. If the dealer sucks, then his tips suck. Pot size? Nope. It's a meaningless metric; I tip based on performance. Everyone should, and watch the incompetent dealers disappear.

Hm? The dude said "I'm not saying we're entitled to anything" and then went on to say that he expects one-sixth of a player's profit.

Great plan! The probability of you winning money by the end of the night is 0%.

If you're against tipping then don't frequent businesses where you know employees work for tips. Believe me, the recreational players that play for fun won't miss grumpy nits like you...

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But that's not how the poker economy works. You are the problem. It has nothing to do with casinos being cheap and needing to pay a decent salary, that is just the excuse yous like you use to be a cheapass.

If every seat was taken up by a you, the room wouldn't be sustainable and would close. Other players make up for the problem that is you.

Or the room would increase rake to pay dealers more while remaining open and still make a profit.

Completel replace tipping with increased fixed costs removes variability from both sides of the transaction. All without taking more or less from players to pay expenses than was being taken by inconsistent tipping.

Downside is that tipping can incent better service from your service provider (dealer, waiter, etc.). As a general observation, I find dealers in Ontario that pool tips are on average much worse than average dealer in rooms that don't pool tips. Crapy dealers pooling tips have little incentive to improve.

Overall I'm not a fan of tipping culture, but it is the one I live in so i begrudgingly participate.


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