Yes.

Yes.

I don't think anyone was out of line here. You asked a fair question and got the only response you could.

I ask delivery guys all the time whether they pool their tips...if so, I tip them in cash, and if not, I leave it on my credit card.

Yes.

DOnt think you were out of line but as someone already said some rooms have strict rules against talking about tips at all. Nothing ever wrong with asking the floor anything as long as its done in the correct manner.

To make it more clear the dealer could have said something like" its against policy for me to talk about that sorry"

I dislike discussing tips at the table with players. I do not see an upside to it.

However, since the table games dept pools and poker does not, if asked, I'll tell the player that poker dealers keep their own tips.

It's a reasonable question that allows players to make an informed decision concerning tipping.

My stock answer on anything more probing concerning tips is "I'm not allowed to say". It's truthful and polite.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but why do you do this?

He assumes that if he tips in cash the driver will keep it for himself and avoid adding it to the tip pool.

If they do keep their own, he leaves it on the credit card because the driver will receive 100% anyway.

That was my guess, and that's ****ed up imo. Effectively this is taking money out of the paychecks of every other driver in the tip pool who plays by the rules.

Exactly

Its been seventeen years since I delivered a pizza, but I imagine a large percentage of customers still pay for their pizzas in cash. I have never heard of shared tips for pizza drivers, but I would wager in this flawed system most if not all drivers would withhold some or all of their cash tips.

I am a dealer. I have been dealing for several years. After reading this thread, I felt the need to post this and get a few things straight.

Any dealer that says that they provide poor customer service to players that do not tip doesn’t deserve to get tipped by any players. I am ashamed to be linked professionally to anyone that claims to short push pots or improperly pitch cards to non-tippers. Mechanics and game management are not the bare minimum. Ask any casino manager and they will tell you that customer service is not optional depending on how you feel about a certain player. Players have the right not to tip and still be afforded an enjoyable trip to the casino.

I got into this profession because I enjoy the game of poker and I am smart enough to realize that I cannot make a decent living playing the game. I changed careers because I was informed that dealers make roughly $1 per hand dealt on top of minimum wage. I would never dream providing poor service to someone because I don’t like the size or frequency of a tip. I understand that the occasional $2 or $3 or $5 tip makes up for any times that I do not receive a tip and it balances out in the long run. I have pushed $400 pots and been thrown a $25 tip. I say to the player “Thank you very much sir. I appreciate that.” I have pushed $15K pots and been thrown a $2 chip and requested it be chopped. I say to the player “Thank you very much sir. I appreciate that.” There is nothing insincere about that, I mean every word.

For the sake of defending dealers for a moment, the job is significantly harder than you might think from the outside. The mechanics of the game are not simple. They take time to learn and much more time to truly master. Great dealers are dedicated to improving their mechanics to prevent flashed cards, misdeals, and rolling decks. We want to get out more hands per hour just as badly as you want to play more hands per hour. In addition to the mechanics and game management, players are often difficult to deal with. These players represent a minority of my customers but I have seen or personally experienced the following: being cussed for a player losing a hand, having things (cards, chips, drinks, chairs) thrown because of a losing hand, player with a huge stack of chips intentionally knocking them all down after I have been requested to count them down. We are responsible for helping new players learn the rules while keeping the game running quickly on lower limits. Players will cuss at you for enforcing the oversized chip rule or any other rule for that matter. But it must all be done.

None of the above is meant to sound like a complaint (although it does admittedly read that way) but merely provide a little insight into the job requirements and the reasons that people only gravitate to this job because of the pay. We have physical fatigue after a long shift and it is especially hard on the back some days. There is significant mental fatigue after a day of bouncing from LHE to NLHE to PLO to PLO8 to 8 game mix to Big O, etc. It is mentally difficult to deal PLO all day and literally be doing that math in your head for the entire shift. I’m not attempting to compare the physical with people that do real labor not the mental with doctors or something like that.

To some of the dealers on this thread especially DHAL and QQ. I’m sure that you came to this thread to defend dealer tips and try to encourage players to tip. But if you can’t see that your comments are –EV for us all, then you are an idiot. You won’t convince 1 additional person to tip or tip more but you might succeed in making a few people angry enough to stop tipping altogether. Thanks for hurting us all because you are burned out. I recommend you find a different career or seek a promotion to floor or something. You are clearly a poor dealer and a poor employee.

To the players on here I only have 1 request. If you don’t choose to tip or choose to tip an amount that you deem as small, that is your right and I honestly believe that no one has the right to tell you differently. But please don’t discourage others from tipping as they see fit. I had a player tip me a redbird after a hand the other night. A different player not involved in the hand asked me to chop that and give the player change. I think we can all agree that this is inappropriate. Please let other players tip as they see fit and I will encourage the same respect be shown to you whether you tip or not.

JD

Very well-said! Probably as objective and unbiased as can be.

Whether you tip or not or how much is no one else's goddamned business.

Diamond, excellent post

Yes, thank you JD. Nice to see a reasonable post in this thread every once in a great while

It depends.

Was it inconceivable that the tipper might have wanted change but did not verbalize it?

If a new player only has $5 chips and I think he intended to tip less than $5, I might say the same thing. If he wishes to tip the entire $5, I would apologize.

Our local $2-chip games were famous for that. Players too embarrassed to ask for a chop meant that the dealers made more there than the other tables. Until the clubs upped the drop from $4 to $5. Suddenly, each pot had a $1 chip in it that the winner could use as a toke. Dealers felt it in their pocket book (yet another way how Management affects the dealers' total tokes more than a few "stiffs")

Inconceivable? No I suppose not. But since there were $1 chips in the pot I imagine that if he wanted to tip me less, he would have used those. It is very rare that I encounter a player that is too shy to ask for a chop.

JD

A stiff will always be a stiff. But if you think being diplomatic will help the cause, and it makes you feel good, then keep at it.

I just can't see giving the same amount of effort to someone who doesn't think I'm worth $1. If you can, and it makes you feel good, then keep at it.

I don't see the point in doing anything above the minimum for someone who won't pay me, when I can do something for someone who does. If you do, then keep doing what you're doing.

Judging by the things you've had done to you by players (throwing things at you, cussing at you, and, probably the most disrespectful, knocking down stacks of chips you're trying to count) you're clearly being walked all over by them. I'd put a stop to all of that immediately. I bet these people really took care of you when you pushed them a pot.

So far, with your post, you've managed to make kowboykiller feel justified to not tip for a service and Angus to say it's ok to interfere when someone is trying to tip you. Good work.

I only replied because you decided to mention me specifically in your post and call me an idiot.

Remember folks, this is how a some dealers feel about you, the customer.

Don't forget it.

I haven't read this entire thread, but this post kinda jumped out at me.

I've had dozens of players over the years tell me how easy my job must be, and some of them were envious of the "cushy" position I had/have as a dealer.

People really have no idea how hard it is, unless they've done it themselves. It truly is demanding, physically and mentally.

Lol. Go look up the definition of "tip" (contextually). A tip is not an agreed upon wage for services. It's generosity, or really a bribe much of the time. It is customary, but not contractual; like comping drinks at casinos, for instance.

Your feelings of self-entitlement are appalling. And so is your work ethic. Would you want your employer to see your posts itt? Doubt it.

As for the whole "if this player is too cheap to tip me $1, then **** him" argument you and others itt have supported, the converse of your argument is more legitimate: if you (the dealer) really need that $1 so bad for your finances, then you can beg (ask) me for it. If my finances are stable, I'm likely to help you out with much more than $1. I don't hate generosity or helping people. I simply avoid tipping because it's a custom that is generally bad for the economy, along w/ the fact that it's often in my personal best interest; when it's not, I usually do tip. I don't view tipping as a matter of principle, but rather as a matter of practicality.

What's your point? Virtually all jobs are demanding.

Your assumption is incorrect.

I posted in this thread specifically to call out the membership of 2+2 for coming into our rooms and deliberately trying to drive down tipping standards -- not only their own (which is fine), but *especially* that of the other players at the tables (which no player has the slightest business doing, but posters here are doing anyway, both live and in online forums).

BTW, what I have posted here is about 2% of what is talked about in break rooms all around the country. It is common knowledge.

Then the only real issue you have is that I'm speaking about this publicly, despite the fact that every industry reader here knows that what I'm saying is *common knowledge*.

Do you really want me to not talk about all this because you're afraid it will reduce your tips? Sorry, not happening.

The readers here claim to be "professional players".

Then -- as professionals -- they need to understand that consistently underpaying the staff (and *especially* trying to convince *other players* at the tables to do the same) WILL ABSOLUTELY have a negative impact on their bottom line. I'm explaining specifically how, and specifically why. I'm also stating that I think this is a good thing, which I absolutely do.

Again, you're simply worried that me telling the truth here will hurt your tips. I don't think it really does, because most of this site is already in the "dollar or nothing" camp. Their presence in your rooms hurts your pay much more than my presence in this thread.

As for me, I am trying to foster a dialog because the alternative is simply to let the nits on this forum continue flying blind, and I'd prefer them to actually understand how to work with the staff and produce a balance that works for everyone. That requires some uncomfortable exchanges, but so be it.

And you're angry because you think the players here will tip you worse because of something I've said here.

Helpful hint: those players would've tipped you badly anyway, because they think they're getting a freeroll. I'm here to explain to them why they're not.

That behavior -- specifically -- is 99% of why I'm posting to this thread.

q/q

I stand by the remark. As I said, you're decision to be confrontational and not diplomatic will cost other dealers in the long run. There is no reason to make players feel like we're the enemy. And no I don't get walked on. I control my tables for the most part. But drunks are drunks and sometimes they get out of hand. This is why we have floor people and security.

JD

JD

Good work at misstating my response.

I said I might say something if I felt the player did not intend to tip as much as the dealer thought (in the specific case that the player might have wanted a larger chip chopped up).

Example: Locally, $1s are dark blue. $20's are black. Player wins a good sized pot at $3/$6. Not paying attention, he tosses a chip to the dealer. A $20 that had gotten into the pot. You would claim that I should shut up and not say anything. You, it seems would keep the chip.
It the actual case, the dealer asked the player if he realized it was a $20. The player didn't. Dealer tossed the chip back. Player tipped him $2.

I am not sure that is their motive. I believe it is more likely that DHAL wants to reduce dealers' tips. I do not believe he is currently a dealer. Perhaps he tried to be one but failed for whatever reason. He is now working to hurt dealers, not help himself just hurt dealers. Sad.

I believe he is practicing black propaganda. His low post count and refusal to say where he works gives some support to this conclusion. His claims that dealers and floors have a very poor opinion of players add more support.

QQ? He seems to believe his attitude is for the best. DHAL's posts encourage QQ to express himself in a similar manner. QQ may just not have a clue about the effects of his posts.

In any case both of them have convinced some players to tip less.