Yeah, the server analogy doesn't work and only proves that tipping at the end of the down (when service is complete) makes the most sense in theory, but since you don't risk losing money at a restaurant while the server is going back and forth, tipping as you go isn't necessary at a restaurant.

I would like to ask... have you ever considered that tipping the $1/hand like most people also encourages others to do the same? I have been at tables before that felt like a runaway train where one person doesn't tip on a pot <$50 and then maybe it happens again and then all of the sudden a player or two who don't really know better feel like its socially acceptable to not tip as well. Not complaining at all, but going with the "norm" may also been seen as an example for others as to what is customary.

I always give something at the end of the down, regardless of 'result'. State of mind is a wonderful thing, but I feel pretty comfortable stating that I would toss over at least a $5 in that scenario and say "thanks for the ride!!".

This is a topic that will never be 'solved'. I'm a business owner and I look at 'cost of doing business' items all the time. I could treat tipping as I treat electricity or I can include tipping as I would an employee wage scenario. I choose to treat dealers as an employee, not a commodity, and make them part of my 'poker process'. I totally agree that there's a point of divergence in both scenarios .. and unfortunately in poker the dealers they have no say in the employment arrangement with the player. I'm bold enough to think that my poker skills create a situation where the dealer makes out better my way than the 'norm', but I'm willing to look at tweaking the process as I indicated in an earlier post today. GL

Yes, you've made it clear that you give regardless of the result; that's kind of the point to tipping at the end of the down, that it is based solely on dealer performance and not results, however, you are mostly tipping on results and doing it at the end of the down instead.

I'm pretty certain that dealers would prefer you tipping out 2% right after you just felted 3 guys for $1800 rather than hoping that you hang onto that money until they get pushed and getting 3% (if they're getting $5 if you give it all back or potentially $0 if you felt). Heck, I'd imagine they'd take 1% of each pot over your system. That's not to say you aren't generous; you are, but you are kind of freerolling a bit compared to generous types who tip big after each pot won.

I'm not suggesting you change, but in terms of dealer compensation, they'd do better if you tipped after each pot (particularly if you are involved in a lot of pots) and you gave them a little something at the end of the down if you didn't win or just feel like giving extra.

If people are actually viewing tipping as a way of using operant conditioning to change behavior, it’s worth noting that the immediacy of the consequence is key to the technique’s effectiveness.

This only works if one has a sliding scale based on performance that just as easily includes no tip, but I've seen some horrendous mistakes and after the pot is figured out correctly and separated from another player's stack, the winner still tips out their usual amount. Some people are very uncomfortable giving no tip, even when it's an error that is not excusable.

I recently saw a dealer make an error and the player pointed out he didnt get his share of a multiway allin. The dealer then recalculated and the player disagreed again. Then the dealer got flustered and threw her hands up in the air and didnt know what to do, she was almost crying.
Floor got called but the next hand was being dealt, floor offered the guy 10 bucks and he refused it. He didnt tip the dealer and like 6 players were complaining about his lack of a tip and why didnt he give her the 10???

Every morning there is a collection for the overnight janitorial crew and we usually get them 8-10 bucks I always thought it was a nice gesture.

I've asked dozens of dealers whether or not they would choose $1 per hand (other than blind steals) irrespective of stake, players, etc as a replacement for current tipping practices. They all say yes.

Isn't this basically the practice at Canter already? Seems everyone tips $1+ every hand (never big tips but never stiffed), and it's limit so these dealers are ripping out ~25 hands a down. Pretty sick that the dealers are probably making more than most "pros" there.

That place is either a collection of both the fastest dealers and players in the entire world for limit games, or it's more like 25-30 hands an hour.

The dealer gets flustered, throws her hands up in the air, was almost crying, floor is called, but, she decides to go to the next hand anyway regardless of all this controversy? And, if the guy claims that he didn't get his share of an all-in, then I'm confused---why should he be tipping at this point? Sounded like it was too late thus he wasn't going to get ANY of that pot. Are you saying that the only money he had a chance to receive was the $10 offered from the floor? And if he refused it then he was SOL? And if so, are you saying that players actually had the audacity to tell him that he should give that money to the dealer?!? The same person who screwed the guy out of his rightful share of an all-in?

Nah...I must've read that wrong.

You can't make the bolded comparison of tipping a waiter every time they come to the table with tipping a dealer after every pot. The "customary" time to tip a dealer is at the completion of a hand. The "customary" time to tip waitstaff is at the end of the meal. A better analogy if you're going to apply your scheme to a waitstaff scenario would be tipping at the end of a week after eating at the location three times that week. I mean, if we HAVE to make analogies.



*edit* I just realized that was the end of the page and the analogy thing has already been addressed. I didn't realize I just basically repeated the same thing you were already replying to. My bad for not noticing, but it still stands that it seems the only reason for your tipping scheme is solely to be unique? I'm a smart dealer and I would note to myself that I may be making more from you doing it your way, but there are many dealers that are NOT smart and they will more likely just remember your lack of a tip even if you hit them up later. Also, there are undoubtedly times where you get felted before you can tip. If your response to that is that you would reach into your pocket and tip after you get felted, there is logically no reason I can think of for you not to just tip after winning pots. In fact, that only reason I can think of for doing all this other than just the being unique factor, is that you want to have those chips on the table as stakes you can double, so couldn't you just keep a few singles out for tipping?

It's 90% limit holdem, and yes both the players and dealers are fast.

The only times I've gotten in close to 50 hands an hour playing live limit holdem have been in HU games with tight opponents. No one is shelling out 25 hands a down in a 9-handed game unless it's a blind chopping rock garden. I'm guessing you play the other 10% of games offered there?

I don't know, it sure seems like a solid hand per minute when I play there. I'll keep track of some downs next time I go. I play everything when I go there, which isn't much.

25 would be a lot of hands per down and almost impossible but 20 is a pretty reasonable number.

I tip $1 a hand unless I win a big pot of over a few thousand in which case I'll tip up to $5. If I get several walks I'll also tip $1.

Since presumably none of us play the unbeatable 3-6 limit type games we might not realize they are full of abusive players who yell at the dealers for being card dead, dealing s bad river, etc. Though dealers make a decent living few people would tolerate this. There is a local casino where most of the dealers are Asian whereas the corporation bankers are mostly white. I went to a bar with several of them and asked them why don't become a dealer and make more money. To a man they said they would not take the abuse. Also it's an unexpectedly physically demanding job. Every dealer has neck/back problems and most would love to work less hours but arent allowed to. This probably has to do with health benefits expenses.

Finally consider how much the casino is raking compared to the dealers tip while the dealer is doing all the work. In our local casino, graton, it is $4 in a full ring regardless of pot size. This is re seasonable to me because I play big. At matrix in San Jose it's capped at $8 rake. A classic case of capital out valuing labor.

1) I'm sure that a dealer would prefer 'guaranteed' $1/hand since they would pretty much be dragging in $30+ per hour (plus minimal wages) .. even at a PLO table. That is some pretty good cheese if you can work a full 40. Certainly tournament tokes don't add up to this much and they deal more hands/hour for sure ... at least at the early levels.

2) I had a great 3-day weekend at a local casino using the 'old' system. By the end of the weekend every dealer came to the table pretty much greeting me first and I could see that they had figured things out. One dealer that I play poker against occasionally even said that there was some chatter in the break room. Of course I was winning ... all weekend ... and the attitude could've been totally different if I hadn't been.

3) I think OPs in this thread pretty much have a handle on 'the old system' which pretty much is "The more I make in a down the higher the percentage of profit that gets tipped."

4) I am strongly considering tweaking the system to tipping $1 at the end of all hands that go to a winning showdown and then adjusting the end of down 'bonus'. This is more like a salesman who receives a base plus commission but I know that some OPs don't like the 'real world' comparisons.

5) I'm still constantly trying to figure out how to differentiate between good and bad dealers. Pretty much any/either 'results based' systems discussed here don't take dealer skill into account other than the number of hands per down would effect the potential for 'more'. A dragged pot is a 'reason' to tip, no more no less. (Yes, there is the obvious 'tip more or tip less' solution, but then it's more than just results based.)

6) Perhaps I do want to be 'different' in my methods in wanting to make this a 'team' effort with the dealer, thus receiving some additional attention. But I've been doing these types of 'out of the box' things my whole life. I don't like 'falling in line' but I do admit I may try to be different a bit too much at times.

6A) I understand that people are comfortable with the 'sure thing' and forcing them to endure my system may create some issues initially (and potentially continually) but I try to make up for it when it works in their advantage.

7) I think my system makes me play better poker as well. It's unfair of me to see this as a team effort unless I do put some burden on myself ... and I will take this into account if I feel I made a bonehead move or took an unwarranted risk.

Thanks for the discussion .. I may lay off this thread for a bit as far as posts go ... GL

Don't forget the $30/hr dealers make from $1/hand tips is only while they are dealing, which is about 4 hours per 8 hour shift at our local casino. The rest of the time is spent running chips, throwing out food, and working the podium (board). Even though this is good in the sense they get a lot of breaks they certainly don't make a lot of money. Dealers in casinos with full time chiprunners make more money but then its the chiprunners getting the short end of the stick. Also you would be surprised how often people don't tip. Either they forget or dont even know they are supposed to. Most common with 3-6 limit players.

Also more and more casinos are forcing the dealers to tip out between 15-25% to floor and chiprunners now. In effect the dealers are paying them now instead of the casino.

Moving some of the tips to the end of the down would have some advantages for dealers particularly in slower games like plo. I used to wonder why dealers come and go so often. It's because it seems from the outside like a better job than it is. All in all I think floorman is a more desirable job.

Even so, £15 an hour/avg here in the UK is not bad at all, especially given that dealers are relatively unskilled in comparison to other professions earning similar wages. I'm all for dealers earning fair pay but I think they need to realise that they are anything but irreplaceable and are paid accordingly (I actually think they're overpaid after tips but that's neither here nor there).

In UK (unless things have changed lately) management gets a decent cut of all times.

If you win a cash drawing in a poker room, how much should you tip?

let's say it was for $1000

Between $5 and $25 depending on how good the dealer is and how generous you're feeling.

In Florida we have the 5 + 2 drop pretty much everywhere, and if I tipped 5 dollars on a 300 dollar high hand I would be considered a stiff.

*what to do when the custom is to tip more then you think is appropriate but you still want to be liked*

God I hate the tipping system