Perhaps right now for some dealers, this attitude is may be all that is needed. Without a union, not being civil servants, not having tenure, increased competition from additional card rooms and from next years class of HS graduates will make this attitude dangerous to your continuing employment.

Tipping 1 or 2 should never get a dealer mad......like I said the $2 tip is in my opinion the best tip in the casino.....nothing better then Getting $2 on a $24 pot....

I'd say 98% of "players" tip with the other 2% being the bottom rung scum...

Where did tipping in poker originate from? What was the history on tipping in the gambling industry? I couldn't find something that was strictly just poker or gambling.

Actually, more often than not, they're granted because the room has specific policies allowing for a rake reduction -- but only when a player formally requests it.

This is wrong on just about all counts.

The grinder is playing for a living, and the only way he can do that is to continually take money off the tables and "out of the poker economy" whenever he plays.

Recreational gamblers (most of whom are regulars with jobs, btw) are *far* more likely to put their winnings back on the tables than are any of the professional players (who make their living by taking money off the tables).


q/q

And from what I've read on other threads here, the rake in the UK is substantially higher than in US rooms -- and certainly higher than US patrons would be willing to accept.

q/q

Ok

UK stand point

I won a £200 pot at the International Poker Club (London)

They take £10 rake

I put £100 in and I get to win £90*

I am made to feel bad by the dealer for NOT tipping. But I feel that the amount of rake is killing the game (it's a 1/1 £150 max buy in)

If I was paying $4 rake on a $200 pot ... it's easy to give $2 tip.

The dealers at the International make a song and dance about NOT being paid any wage at all, and they only eanr money from tips.

Is this true?

Should I tip there?

It's so hard to beat the rake in that room that I feel I pay enough already????


* in this hand I had AKo I put him on a PP (he had it) - we got all in pre flop (he had 55) ... King on the flop. BUT even with a few pounds of dead money, with that rake I don't have the odds to make this call - if I have AKo OR 55. Mmm.

the conclusion is, surely in UK no one should tip? As we pay over twice the rake as US casinos?

the question is... does the International REALLY take £10 rake AND not pay the dealers a penny - so they make us feel bad not tipping them?????

That's approximately a $16 rake (in US dollars).

Standard rake in the US is capped at $3 - $5 (depending on the state).

Just for comparison.


q/q

But you don't need to convert it - it plays against the buy in.

So 1/1

(£/$) 150 MAX buy in

Obv most people buy in way shorter (Min 25 most buy in 80-100)

I think the US have got it sooooo good

Oh and don't think the International is a special case ... this is the normal UK rake at most places.

The only reason I mention the Int is that they made a big announcement at lowering their rake to £8 MAX ... but never told anyone a few weeks later when they sneaked it back to £10

I think this could be a kick back to when it was illegal in the UK to tip dealers (a law lifted a few years ago)

That's fine.

But you can't charge this much rake and then not pay dealers anything, and have the dealers constantly telling this to the table.

It's unfair, and akward

Simple. The UK casinos take as much as they can. It has relatively little to do with the fact that they pay their dealers more than they do in the "tipping culture" locations.

As been pointed out, to replace the $1 a pot tip with an equivalent wage, they would only have to increase the average rake per pot by $2.

So am I right that I shouldn't feel bad for NOT tipping in the UK????

Because the pressure the Int dealers put me under makes me feel bad.

Or are the dealers (in this thread) right and I am just a horrible person?????

Put that on your resume, or better yet, if you ever apply for another job just tell your prospective employer your philosophy. That you only intend to do the bare minimum to keep your job and if you do anything over that it's because you're such a sport.

Of course, you don't do that, you can't deal 10 hands an hour to half the table and 40 to the other half. You don't mess around with the players because you'd be fired or some player would ensure your "attitude" improves (or, more likely, you don't have a job as I write).

You "are" a very angry person. It shows and you can't hide it. You despise people, hence you have low self esteem. You figuratively pull your pants down in front of the entire 2+2 community to impress us with your "little, very bad boy" persona. Seek psychiatric help.

You mean, all casinos take as much as they can, right? Nobody's providing poker out of the goodness of their hearts. Your casino would raise the rake to $20 a hand in the blink of an eye if they thought the market could bear it.

The new dealer attitude in this thread is one of entitlement. They lack the sort of work ethic that would allow them to do their best job all the time. It saddens me.

Oh, a question -- a threw a $5 chip to a WSOP cash game dealer last night. I'm to understand I'm some sort of rube now as a result. Can anyone confirm?

Angus, is that supposed to be sarcastic or did you just not notice what you were saying? Not trying to flame you, my question is serious.

So to pay dealers the same as getting tipped $1 per hand, the pot would pay out an additional $2, wow, if only it would happen. that way, even the players who NEVER tip would be paying out more per pot. I like it!

If my casino would have us drop $2 per hand pre flop and then pay me $1 for EVERY hand I dealt per day. Damn, it staggers the imagination.

Of course, they would have to rule no tipping and they would have to increase fees on tournaments to offset the no tipping there but I'm pretty sure everyone would be fine with that.

Okay, is everyone good with that?

I'm on board with what DG and AT suggest. Most places where I play already take the tips out in advance--3% of the buy-in itself (NOT the house rake/vig) goes to the staff--so nothing would change in tournaments.

Point?

I was responding to the implication that if the casinos paid you what you make in tips, the rake would triple.

Which, I have shown repeatedly, is bunk.

I didn't say it was a better way. I just wanted to burst another bubble of the over the top "if you don't tip, you are free loading scum" crowd.

DG- just to be clear, the player receiving the winnings from a tournament, or any gambling, must report every single dollar of winnings as gambling income to the IRS. The $5000 threshold you are referencing is for the casinos; they have to do the paperwork of the W2G when the net is over $5k.

But no matter what the amount, the player must report it on his form 1040.

I really wasn't trying to make a point. I was not sure if you were making a statement with or without sarcaism. In print, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I agree with the numbers you are using, I was just agreeing with you with a slightly different viewpoint.

But I did make a point, if the non tippers think they are saving money by getting tipping stopped by paying dealers a higher wage with no tips allowed, they are fooling themselves.

if the casinos started taking $2 out of each pot and paying $1 to the dealers, the non tippers would lose more money than if they just tipped a $1.

I like things the way they are but if anyone wants to guarantee me $1 for every pot I push, I'm down with that, big time.

Wouldn't have to carry the box around or wait to cash out each night. Everything else would stay the same.

You are right, the first line of my post should have read:

To be more accurate, a player must report every dollar he wins which can be offset with losses which you can document with a diary and any legitimate receipts the player has. The IRS describes this on their website and a good accountant will help a player keep track of his wins and losses.

Who can resist a thread like this?
...
Do I feel the pay is unfairly high when you consider the effort vs. reward involved in dealing cards? Yes. Starting teachers work longer hours-- some enduring stressful environments-- and receive a laughable salary "and the satisfaction of preparing our future generation". Lol @ the satisfaction. There are men and women in combat zones getting paid a mere fraction of my wages.

You could make the argument that dealers should have knowledge of ALL rules of their house, Title 31, alcohol intervention, accurate mechanics, a good personality, clean appearance, and-- perhaps most important-- a fair and honest dealing style. We're expected to know the names and faces of all our regulars and provide entertainment for everyone. What is to say this is necessarily more or less demanding than an IT architect or air traffic controller? These jobs can pay about the same as dealing cards. An ATC doesn't fly planes ... just controls the action at his airport and keeps planes from landing out of turn.

Perhaps the one thing which irks me is the assumption that every cent I earn vanishes. Of the 85% of my pay not going into my 401K, a decent chunk goes to business owners or individuals who were guests at my table. My realtor, surveyor, pawn shop guys, gun shop guy, meat market woman, a few chefs I frequent... all I met whilst dealing. Another portion goes back into the poker economy when I go play at a local track.

It is no simple task to hear "pot"; "repot"; "all-in" on 1-2-5 PLO ... THEN have to count out a main pot, side pot, and throw the rest in the 2nd side, THEN split the two sides to two broadways with the main pot going somewhere else, WHILE making sure to take Seat 3 out of the lobby and unjam the ShuffleMaster. The pressure is on us to put out hands. I take a great deal of pride in my ability to accurately work out these situations without wasting my guests' time.

It may dishearten me to get stiffed after a complicated hand, but I can assure you, it is never reflected in my work. I am genuinely thankful for each toke. I used to bag groceries, so I've made minimum wage. You'll never hear me even hint that I'd like a tip, even for a BBJ. In fact, I'll politely tell someone who asks if they got me last hand, "I believe so," even if I know it's not true... because the money will still be fantastic at the end of the night.

If my +EV was the absolute determinant when I put on my uniform, I would call the supervisor every single time I sit down at a well which is even a dollar short. Unless the amount missing from our chip bank is outrageous ($10+), most dealers on my shift will replace it using their tip money.

Following on with this:

If the *average* rake per pot must go up by $2, consider how much higher the *maximum* rake will have to be (in order to produce this new average value). I have plenty of experience with these numbers, and when you take into account all the chops, small pots, rake reduced tables, etc, the "average" pot is only raked at about 1/2 - 2/3 of the max (if that). So really, we're still talking about a $3 - $4 increase in the max rake to produce the average per-hand effect you are proposing.


q/q

It doesn't "must" anything. The casino already takes as much as they feel we're willing to pay -- it has little to do with some formula they pre-concocted.


It's not like they figured out how much the room cost, and then amazingly rake exactly what everyone else in town rakes. It's not as though a winning casino happens to rake less than a bankrupt casino...

They figure out how much we will pay, and then they charge us that -- and then they pay you and keep what's left over.

----

That said, yes it likely would go up, but mostly but not because they do the math forward and figure out how much the rake should be based on costs.

The numbers I posited are the *minimum* it would have to go up (simply to cover the costs of the proposal).

Unless you think they're going to eat a loss just out of the goodness of their hearts in order to relieve you of the burden of tipping the staff?


q/q

I made a post showing that a room would literally need to rake millions more per year to compensate dealers and eliminate tipping. He refused to acknowledge it. I don't know where he thinks the casino is going to come up with this money.

He, and other people who've suggested eliminate tipping, also refuse to acknowledge that the same policy would have to include table games dealers. The limits on the tables would either have to go up. No more $5 and $10 dollar blackjack.

Another variable to consider is that once dealer salaries are raised (40k to 60k, whatever number you want to suggest), higher up and corporate employees would demand raises. Union workers would absolutely demand raises. Now the rake/drop must increase by millions more.

If it were plausible, I'd be all for it. But it just isn't if the players want to keep the rake, and table game limits, reasonable.

added: Just read the thread about the rake in the UK.

£100NL - 10% £5 cap+50p jackpot
£200NL - 5% £10 cap+50p jackpot

Or, $8.20 cap on 100nl and $16.40 on 200nl.

But, they don't tip.

Repeatedly will never be enough.