If you are winning 3 pots an hour in an NL game and tipping $3 total puts u on tilt you are smokin that wacky tobaccky

edit: i dont tip for pots under say $15

$1 is the standard tip

If I get a high hand I tip 10% (max $20)

If I'm stuck and the dealer stuck me I don't tip until I get some healing (more $$$$)

edit #2: what i dont understand is when dealers/waitstaff massively overtip when they are in a game. For example, a waitress will play Friday night. Loses $200 right away, then wins a pot for $50 and tips the dealer $6.

I get it they are both industry, but its not like the dealer is a reg that tips the waitstaff $6 for bringing them a jack n coke.

+1

Tip the good dealers. Stiff the bad dealers.

I came across a dealer the other day who actually turned someone's faced-down hand back up because she wanted to make sure he didn't fold a winner to me. Now, because I've never had a problem with her before, I decided to cut her some slack and I politely explained to her why she's not supposed to do that, but, then she looked at me and said, "well, I need to make sure cause I want to learn how to read the hands."

"And you think NOW is the time for that?!" (Which is what I was thinking but didn't even bother wasting any more breath on her).

I'll probably never tip her again, because to me, that's a bad dealer.

Even the guy who conceded the pot was shaking his head.

dealers tend to tip really well because they think they should be tipped a lot more than they get tipped themselves.

Their actions if truly as prevelant as stated and if known by mgmt also opened the staff and room up to civil action by Russ. Technically they were stealing the comps from Russ and he could have sued.

I believe you have unknowingly revealed much more about you than you realize; and it isn't particularly a good reveal. You may not be rich but I would guess the rest of your phrase does apply. If you can't afford a customary cost of your chosen profession you need to change professions.

As to your medical expenses, you are correct no independent contractor profession provides insurance. But it is your chosen profession and therefor your responsibility to provide your own insurance. And in fact that responsibility is no longer even voluntary but is legally required.

Btw, I estimate that over 95% of players do tip at least in some pots for some dealers. I tip most pots and most dealers. Some dealers I do not tip or seldom tip. But that is based on past interactions.

they aren't paying their share of the dealer/game cost.they aren't paying quite dearly at all. they are leeching off of others bc it is customary to tip which enables casinos to pay the dealers lower wages than they would have to if tipping weren't customary (as well in most places less than minimum wage)

It's no different than going to a restaurant, getting good service and stiffing the waiter. Your food cost less bc of the tipping system same as your rake/time.

It's one thing if someone is ignorant of these things (say a first time player or euro in a US restaurant.)But if you know how tipping works, understand that's why food or rake/time is less than it would be otherwise and choose not to tip you 100% are leeching off of people who aren't scumbags.

I should say my real problem with the tipping custom is most people don't actually tip based on the quality of the service which leaves us with ****ty waiters and ****ty dealers. But I have no problem tipping good dealers for doing their job well. In fact I have tipped good dealers in downs where I never won a pot. I also had a down in a 5/10 game at cesars in vegas this year where I was tipping on pots I didn't even win. I had never played there before, but the dealers were all really good at both running them games and helping the floor fill seats. But these nitty little ****s were barely tipping which really pissed me off. I hate bad dealers, but when you get a good one take care of them so he keeps dealing.

As for the guy with 12k im medical expenses- i'm sorry for anyone with medical problems but that doesn't justify stiffing dealers.you know we have a tipping system. if you can't win with it don't play. if everyone had your selfish mentality tipping would be done away with, rake would be higher, dealers on a whole would be worse and your win rate would be a lot lower so you wouldn't play.if the only way you can beat poker is by weaseling your way out of paying for the service you receive you suck at poker anyway and should quit.

For that guy it is funny you hate the tipping system. WITHOUT THE TIPPING SYSTEM YOU WOULD BE A LOSING PLAYER as your fellow players would stop subsidizing your portion of the service cost of playing poker.Considering you want to go to vegas and be a stiff you should love the tipping system.

12k medical expenses? What'd ya do, break a pinky toe?!

Assuming this mandatory service fee were intended to be revenue neutral, it would probably result in my overall cost being less, because I always tip and am therefore subsidizing all the people who don't. If everyone were forced to tip, the people who currently freeroll would be paying their share, and the rest of us would come out ahead.

And speaking as someone who once lived off tips as a pizza delivery driver, I would have loved a guarantee of $3 per order, which was about my average tip. Variance sucks when your rent is the same amount every month. Tipping is a stupid system for paying people. I do it because it's the system we currently use and it's the right thing to do, but if a poker room opened near me that paid dealers a fair wage, raked more, but disallowed tipping, I'd only ever play there.

You think $6 or $7 per half hour is paying dearly?

In a raked game, $4 max, 9 players, avg would be about $13 per hour per player.

Now if you're a eurodonk, you're likely paying 3-4x that rake. And likely a stiff when you come to USA! And when you come to USA, you are a stiff and paying PENNIES rake in comparison!

Now imagine making the choice to play $1/2 for a living with those medical expenses and expecting your dealers to subsidize some portion of the $12k.

And then telling an internet forum they don't know enough about you to judge.

I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the recent part of this thread.

Where I play, the (non-tipped employee not-exempt) minimum wage has gone from $8.xx to about $15 an hour recently.

When combined with a lot of dealers and players tipping dealers $3-10 a hand, the club jackpot taking 4-5 handed (thus doubling my rake cost in games where I'm acting as a game salvaging unpaid prop), and dealers who talk (in English, Tagalog, Cantonese, Vietnamese, whatever) to players about social events during hands, over active players' shoulders while getting into the box; I've cut way down on tips.

I'll still tip the excellent ones a $1 every hand, a large handful $1 every other or so, and a smaller handful zip.

I'm a nerd about it, but I'm tipping to subsidize a wage, period. I am not thrilled about a semi-skilled job (yes, I know it's not an easy job, but it doesn't require a doctorate in rocket science) paying $35-50 an hour, but it is what it is. If I'm going to help get I there (while paying $150 to the club to "rent" the table), I expect more competency/etiquette than a lot of dealers at the places I play are showing.

The entitlement of poker players rubs off on the staff sometimes, methinks.

I'll go out on a limb and say you're a low limit player. And if said room opened and paid a real wage, you would not be able to beat the game.

As a dealer, and a player. Yes I made a living playing for a few years also. I totally agree with you.

You shouldn't have to go through that BS.

Here in Vegas, it's $8xx an hour wage. Not sure if we got any raise this year yet. I'll know next Friday. But even then, lucky if it reaches $9 hr.

Honestly, if we were to go to no tipping, I wouldn't do it for less than $30 per hour. And I'd probably be looking for work elsewhere (taxes etc).

So, if we were going out on a limb, and said they paid $30 per hour, how much would the rake be?

My guess. 15-20% rake, $20-$25 max. Each table would need to gross $250 per hour minimum from the corporate perspective. And I'm shooting low to be honest.

I have to disagree with you on this. But, O.K. maybe this it's relative, in my opinion, a table share of an hours rake/time charge is a fairly substantial fee.


I'm not arguing that tipping isn't in order or appropriate in these various situations.

I stated very explicitly that if you want to argue that a player should pay more than the rake/time they're already paying, then fine, make that argument.

My objecting is solely the assertion that they're "wanting to play for FREE" if they don't tip.


If you "stiff" a waiter, does that mean you got your meal for free?



.

If the hourly goes up $22 (from $8 to $30 in your example), the company has to pay say $30 more (SS, etc). Each table has 1.33 dealers, so they need to take in an extra $40/table. Figure 20 hands/hr. Rake would need to increase probably $3 since not all hands reach max rake.

$9/ hour flat rate? Must be nice...

We get less than $4.50/hour where I work in PA and we get taxed 100% on our tips on top of that.

then why do you hate tipping? if it wasn't for tipping and the possibility of stiffing you would be paying a lot more. tipping is a great system for stiffs.

I'm sure this is true because these corporations are greedy soul suckers that would take it as an opportunity to also increase their own profits, but they could make up the difference between paying $9/hr and a reasonable $25-30/hr by raising the rake only $1-2/hand. This includes having to pay increased employer FICA.

They might have to do some better hours forecasting for how many dealers to have on hand so that they don't have dealers sitting around doing nothing, but that is just part of having a business.

Some people don't realize that, what they're trying so desperately to cover, is still as transparent as ever.

if i said they play for free then i phrased it poorly
they are leeching off the tippers.

When did albedoa mention anything of the sort? Did I miss something?

This is an extremely poor assumption

Wrong person bro.

"If they went from tipping to decent fixed wage ................."

Argue all you want. Ain't gonna happen. System is here to stay for our lifetimes. Such arguments should have their own containment thread.

Tipping professions have always had a portion of customers who do not tip or 'under tip'. Dealers, cabbies, waiters, etc all survived.