Don't get why people are so emphatic about what others should do with their own money.

At what point did I say I was angry? Seems to me the anger is stemming from people who don't like hearing that we do get annoyed by people too cheap to tip. I make an above average living at a job where I sit on my butt, be a part of a game that I like playing, socialize with a very diverse group of people. The heaviest thing I have to lift is a deck of cards. I break a sweat only when the a/c isn't on high enough. I do typically wonder what's wrong with someone who thinks they can afford to play poker, but that extra dollar for the deal is just too much. But to say I'm angry? That's just stupid.

I'm sure they miss you.

I'd love to make a 60k a year, guaranteed. That way, all I have to do is the absolute minimum required. I can drop it down to 22-27 hands an hour (typically the lowest a cardroom will let someone go). I won't have to remember the regulars' first names. I don't have to provide one ounce of customer service above what the casino requires. The incentive to just do a good job for the sake of doing a good job isn't that enticing. If it was, I would've picked another line of work.

See how this could end up a problem? You have dealers who do that now, with no guarantee, other than their minimum wage. You know the ones you have to wake up and tell them, "we've all acted" because he/she is staring off into space. We work to get faster and more efficient at running a game so that we can potentially earn more money. I'd rather provide 40 chances an hour to get tipped than 20, obviously.

Of course we're going to try to get as much of a tip as possible. If it upsets you to see other players tip, go play in a home game where the deal is passed around. But, if you do happen to play at my table at some point in life, please, by all means, speak up when someone throws me a red bird on a $30 pot. Tell them you don't want to see their money go to the person who's working. Tell them leave it on the table so you can take it. Normally, when someone does that, it garners sympathy towards me (most normal people don't like seeing one person try to hinder another person making a living) and I end up with an exceptional down. It's win win. You'd look stupid and I'd make more money.


Right. And they'd have to find alot of extra money to pay us. They're not going to cut someone else's salary to raise our income. Where do you think that money would come from..

No I said trying to find out where I work would be stalking. I'm not having some creepy weirdo trying to track me down.

Uh, that's because we have to, kid.

"The incentive to just do a good job for the sake of doing a good job isn't that enticing." Well, for 60k a year you can deal 40 hands per hour (you have the auto-shufflers I assume) or be fired. That's a pretty good incentive.

Pretty much nothing pleases you. You say you need tips to deal faster/make more money, blah, blah, then, when given the option to make even more money without resorting to tips, you say you'd slack off, that you now don't have any incentive to keep a job like that.

Every reply you give has a "dig" in it, you take quotes out of context, and you always make yourself look good and proclaim yourself the winner of the debate/argument (usually with the "digs"). Everything seems to be a win-win scenario for you. You just can't be beaten.

You're no dealer, you're just trolling these boards.

I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. I'm fine with the way things are. Again, I make a nice living through the current system. You're the one who went on a big tirade about how terrible the current system is. I also said I'm fine with making a guaranteed 60k to deal poker. I just pointed out the problems a guaranteed salary would cause in a business like this. I'd hate to be dealt to by someone who's making the same thing no matter how good or bad they are. Ever notice you usually get alot more friendliness, and better service, from servers who work on tips compared to a fast food employee?

Read through the boards. People are constantly complaining about dealers messing up, not doing things correctly, suspect them of collusion, pushing pots to the wrong people... and they're TRYING to earn your tips (at least they should be). Take away the incentive and you'll see a total lack of effort.

The majority of dealers aren't capable of dealing 40+ hands per hour. If a casino were to actually fire people for not meeting a 40 hour per hour quota, most rooms would be closed down due to lack of employees. As I said, somewhere between 22 and 27 is normally the minimum required. That's with a shuffler. Alot of older people get jobs dealing. They're not going to get out 20 hands a down. It's just not realistic to require 40 hands an hour to keep your job. And clearly you've never held a management position. Telling people "do this or you're fired" (negative reinforcement) does not get positive results.

QuadsOverQuads your working ethic is disgusting and I really think you should be fired, good thing I never tip dealers like you, enjoy your min wage

Sounds like we have an agreement: you don't ever have to tip me, and I don't ever have to give you anything above bare-minimum service.

Enjoy your 12 hands per down, cry on the internet over your lost hourly, and have a nice day.


q/q

Seems like you don't get it, I tip for great service, I don't tip in the hope to get good service, or do you tip a waitress when you walk into a restaurant and hope she does well?

And if you deal that slow, the other players who would normally tip you stop doing so, start complaining and you would find yourself looking for a new job pretty fast.

And at some places here the dealers pay 6 per half hour and ONLY get to keep their tips...

You do a good job, then you get tipped, not the other way around. Do you see how that works?

Do you see how not getting tips from 1 person isn't going to affect you very much, but doing a bad job because of that one person out of spite is you causing yourself to lose much more?

Here is something I don't understand you have 1 non-tipper and he will get 12 hands per down but if that is the case you are punishing the tippers on that table too. Why are you punishing them?

don't confuse him, he's obviously not the smartest guy around and doesn't realise that being rude to the players only makes his situation worse and can result in him being fired

It's sad actually, now that more and more dealers "out" themselves.

They honestly believe that they should only do their best work when they're getting tipped "enough" - and that they and they alone decide what enough is.

Work ethic.

+1

The work ethic has been slowly leaving the DNA strand for quite awhile now, judging by what goes on in most businesses. And it isn't just within the service industry.

Tipping is voluntary. Tip or don't it's your choice.

What is not voluntary is the confidentiality laws concerning medical treatment in the US. Your wife is talking about medical care her patients received from her and telling you about it?

Can we saw Hipaa violation, federal offenses, extremely personal information being shared with a husband who has no right to that information? Want to bet that clinic can be located Bob and a complaint filed?

Do you really want the U.S. Goveernment looking into your life?

Don't tip the guy but tell your wife to shut her mouth about extremely personal matters that she is bound by law to not discuss. You might try that as well.

yep, another reason why the system used here (dealer pay to deal, get to keep tips) is good, all the dealers really try to give their best and I gladly tip them

Think about it. If every dealer knew he was going to make exactly as much money as every other dealer, where would the incentive to preform above the norm come from?

if a dealer knows the more hands he gets out, the more opportunity for tips he will outperform the average dealer. Those dealers will deal faster and cleaner since the incentive is there to do so.

You want to limit how many hands are dealt, limit how much a dealer can earn.

Don't listen to the so called dealers like DHAL, he is an abomination and yes, I called him a name.

He also is a liar, he claims he does not violate company policy. When he acts as he does towards players who do not tip, if he makes the players unhappy with the way they are treated by him, I guarantee he has violated a company policy.

Tip or don't it's a personal decision. But don't tell me what to do with my money.

No medical talk at all my wife mentioned that the dealer was in and told her to say hi to me. While at the casino I asked him if he tipped for the treatment, he said are you crazy and I asked why not. She is not crazy and would not lose her license over something like this. Many people players and dealers go to that clinic and tell her to say hi to me sorry no violation at all for saying someone said hi. Some tell her to say Hi when they come in with a friend, spouse or significant other not necessary that they are even a patient that day.

FYP. Why would the dealer want to suppress his hourly out of spite? Does he think the big tippers will tip more per hand than the same big tippers would if he dealt fast, just to pick up the slack?

You "do" realize that in the real world people want to keep their "$60k a year with good benefits" jobs. That's incentive enough to deal well. I'm not saying that they "must" crank out 40 hands per hour (with auto-shufflers) or be fired, but if I were a dealer I would certainly not want to lose a high paying job.

Uh, how about the same incentive as any other job that doesn't get tips?!?

Work hard and get raises and promotions (to at least better shifts, games, locations).

Your starting pay is $17.50/hour. Do a good job, and you'll get a raise. Do a bad job, and you'll get fired. ...just like the rest of us.

Read the above then re read the first line of your post I quoted.

Then the last line:

I don't buy your "excuse" BigTex.

Now, does the clinic know you are threatening people if they don't start paying extra at a county sponsored clinic?

Pick a casino, buy it, announce the change of a system that works, and has worked for decades, to something completely different and see how many dealers you have the next day.

Although that's true, i made the point upthread that tipping is somewhat efficient because it relieves the house of the need to identify high- or low-performing dealers for reward or corrective action. Tipping automatically rewards those who get out hands, and it implicitly also rewards those who deal well. They don't get into as many controversies hence suffer fewer floor calls, and customers effectively make their own micro-level performance evals.

In the age of Bravo, this is less important because the house is probably monitoring the rake per dealer very carefully anyway. I'm not sure if the card system really connects to the rake slot or the shuffler yet, but if not it would seem to be a matter of time.

Nobody likes change. Is that your point?

There are plenty of dealers around the world (and even here in the US) who work under a system other than low base pay plus tips. So you can't keep pretending that it's the only workable model and that without it the fabric of poker would collapse.

Also, there's plenty of people waiting in the wings to deal poker, so I'm not worried.

First, could you reference poker dealers in the US who do not get tipped and a base wage. I'm just curious. I'm sure you have the documentation, I'd just be interested in knowing who and where?

There are children working in sweat shops around the world as well but my kids won't be looking for work anytime soon, what's your point?

Do you know many people who do like change?

Especially from something that is working to something that MIGHT work, because it will save YOU money...maybe.

Replacing an employee, on average, costs 1.5 times that employee's annual salary. I used to wrok for a major insurance company, they quoted that figure often when discussing the need to retain good employees.

But hey, if someone cheaper is out there, why not get rid of the good ones and pay someone less money?

How many employees can you afford to replace?

During the period of time all of the new dealers are getting up to speed, how much business will you lose and how much rake will you fail to collect?

Once again, all I've said is that I'm not going out of my way to do anything that benefits a non-tipper. If you feel the need to cater to those who think nothing of you, then by all means, keep on doing what you're doing. I choose not to spend any extra time on them, other than the minimum the casino requires.

You're right. No one would want to lose that job. However, the problem is that alot of dealers would then just do enough to not get fired. I'm sure you've been dealt to by dealers who do that right now. Go ahead and tell them they don't even have to try to make good money and watch the laziness unfold.

I could do the bare minimum required to keep my job right now, but I'd cash out with a pretty empty box.

How would you define "good job" for a dealer? I'm just curious.

The raises would have to come from some where. Salary is paid out of the rake/drop. It's figured into a budget. To give raises, more rake/drop is needed or more revenue (losing players) is needed. This has been discussed before. The people at the top are not, nor will they ever, be willing to give up their own salary to pay dealers more money.