I stated you would not return tip money (and money that wasn't a tip in the first place doesn't count).

You said I was wrong. (3 times)

Now, you agree with me.

My Lord... I thought the "what if a player mucks his winning hand to a tabled ten-high" as a comparison to a dealer pushing a pot to the wrong tabled hand was strange, now taking someone's blind and stuffing it into your toke box (or not chopping a toke), being called out on it, and then returning the money is called refunding a toke.

Yeah, come on man. Just admit you wouldn't refund a tip.

I admit it! I'll admit to anything! You guys have broken me.

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But you don't sound sincere about it. "I'll admit to anything!" Is your way of making a joke about it.

You just don't get it.

If you mistakenly take MY money that I posted for my blinds and drop it in your box and then later on give it back, that is NOT a "refund". In fact, anything other than returning it is stealing.

Just own it. You would never take a toke out of your box to give to another player. The fact that you replied countless times to Angus trying to state your case is beyond lol. You would've been better off with your usual M.O. of "blah blah blah." Ya know, better to be thought a fool...

I owned it way back in this exchange with Angus. In bold print and everything. Then I owned it a few more times.


If you saw my latest response as sarcastic or humorous, it was because I kept getting badgered to just come out and admit something that I've freely admitted all along.

Earlier this month, I posted specific reasons why I would never refuse a tip. Similarly, I would never refund a tip. I did give an example of giving a player a tip back. Ok, so you want to argue semantics, that it's not really a refund... or that it wasn't a tip in the first place... fine. I will grant that. But it is the only circumstance I can think of where I will voluntarily give money back to a player at the table.


P.S. Thank you for referring to the situation as "mistakenly" taking your money. Others in this thread would insist that I intentionally and maliciously stole your money.

The problem is this scenario is not giving a tip back anymore than giving a player an extra chip back when he mistakenly put 13 chips in the pot to call 12 chips is giving him a chip from the pot. It wasn't supposed to be in the pot, and the blind wasn't supposed to go into your box. No semantics.

While on this thread, I have always criticized people that think it's OK to undertip the dealers, I don't understand why anyone would overtip either. I realize you are a dealer yourself and that may have something to do with it, but wow. Even though you made it obvious that you were kidding about $10 being a baseline amount, let's exaggerate and say $10/ hour is a fair amount to tip. If $10/hour is the right amount to tip why would you give $20. I realize it feels good to be generous, but if you're going to just give your money away, why are poker dealers collectively who you feel are the most deserving of receiving it.

Since you dead set on giving away $10, for every hour you play poker, why, instead of giving it all away to the poker dealers, not allocate some of that money to the janitors and security guards at the casino that don't work for tips. Or give some of the extra money you tip to a homeless shelter or other charitable organization.


OK, enough with the silliness. But tipping is really when the business shifts the responsibility of paying their employees from themselves to their customers. They adjust the price they to account for the money you still need to pay out more money to the tipped employee after you are done paying them.

Since I've been told that stealing is not the correct word to describe the action someone that doesn't tip or severely undertips. How about if I say that someone like Lester that tips $.83 /hour is cheating or gaming the system. However, somebody like you bolt (forgetting the fact your also a dealer) that tips $20 / hour is letting the system cheat or game him.

Very well. Now we have narrowed it down to a very precise definition. If you want to know how to get a chip out of my box and back into a player's hands, this is one of only two scenarios which I can think of. (The other being a player who tosses me a $5 toke when he meant to toss me only $1).

But of course the problem here is that under/over tip is an entirely subjective term.

Your turn to be the one getting flamed ITT. It was me a couple days ago. I don't understand. Do Angus, Z4, and rush really think that you are implying that you think you are performing some super act of generosity when you are just returning money that you accidentally took.

Serious question about returning tips. What do you do in the case of when player wins pot, gives you a buck, and you put it in the box (which we are all aware is locked). A few seconds later after stacking his chips he throws you another one. You believe there is a good chance that he didn't remember that already gave you the first one. Do you say something along the lines of "You already got me this hand" before putting the second chip in the box that you can't get it out of?

I guess it's like the expression about porn. Something like "I can't describe it, but I know what it is when I see it". If somebody is on average tipping $.83/hour, it's pretty easy to see they are undertipping. Likewise if someone is tipping an average of $20/hour it's pretty easy to see they are overtipping.

But you are definitely right in as much as the fine lines that define the sweet spot between under and over tipping are very subjective.

It's the people that know they are tipping below the 'sweet spot' but do it because they can get away with it, that I think are cheating or gaming the system.

Likewise, I don't understand why those that know they are tipping above the 'sweet spot' think that poker dealers, as a whole, is a group that is worthy of being so generous to.

I get a lot of enjoyment/amusement out of reading this thread. For the most part, I just read and don't engage in the discussions, but every so often I'll contribute to the thread for a few days with every expectation of getting flamed for being a dealer.

As for your question about returning tips. If a player throws me a tip and then throws me a 2nd tip a short while later, I'll generally accept it, thank him again, and drop it into the box. If the player asks me if he's tipped me already, I'll tell him the truth. And if he gives me an inquisitive look (an unspoken "Did I tip you already?) then I'll answer truthfully here as well.

But specific to your scenario, I'll just accept the 2nd tip and drop it in the box.

And when I do this I call it a refund or rebate.

Dealers do it hoping to encourage others to tip dealers more in general.
Also the dealer he is overtipping may play in his room when he's dealing and overtip and perhaps get others to tip more.

Non dealers who overtip are probably generous in all aspects of their life.

I have a regular who does this probably 95% of the pots I push him.
He doesn't ask if he got me. Doesn't look like he's not sure.
I assume it's a bonus, but I'm not sure and have been wondering for years.

Sometimes a player will toss me a second toke as I'm shuffling and say "bonus". Just happened last night.

Also, If I refunded a toke in my room in any way, shape, or form I would be written up

Let's assume that you would not get written up.

Would you ever "refund a toke"?

The whole point of this little detour is a dealer hinting he would do X, if only the tip box wasn't locked or he would be written up, when in fact he would never do X anyway.

I did?

I don't see why not? Although it would take a special kind of person to ask for a toke back.

The original question was...

There was never a mention of a player asking for a tip back.

Nobody expects a dealer to tip a player who lost a big pot to a two outer.

But don't don't say its because your tip box is locked.
Don't say its because you would be written up.

Just say you wouldn't do it.

Uh, so, please explain, the player's landlady accepts...? uh, just what exactly?

bolt is hanging on for dear life to a losing argument. He keeps saying what he did do was return a non-tip from his box. No one ever asked you in the first place if you had reached into your box and returned money that you threw in that was not a tip. It's crazy you keep bringing it up. The question was, would you refund a tip? The question was not, would you return a posted big blind that you took and put in your box?

I see, I missed that part.

In that case, no I wouldn't. Mainly just because that is not what is expected. Also, you are tipping for a service. The easiest way is to do it when you win a pot.

Although, I would be happy if they did it in a way like they collect time. Every half hour grab a buck from every player.

I think we're done with discussion on whether bolt would refund a tip. Next topic.

Asked and answered. Multiple times.

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