It wasn't an option presented to me or anyone else. I don't know if they would have done it upon request.

Most dealers get paid less than minimum wage per hour as law permits tipped positions such as dealers, cocktail servers, and waitresses to be paid as little as $4.25 per hour. And of course they don't make any tips on the breaks and deadspreads so that has to be figured in.

There is no too large or too small; you tip what you feel like.

That being said, $25 on $10K would very likely have the same response as that person talking about the $1 toke earlier. The only difference is the dollar could be construed as passive aggressive (like tipping a penny at a restaurant) and the $25 clearly wouldn't.

Based on this thread, it seems most dealers would be looking for close to 10% on that $10K.


When I was playing one night, some casino floor people brought a couple into the poker room for some privacy, as there was only one table running in that section. They looked like they were being paid a bunch of cash from a tourney winning, but there were no tournaments running.

Some of the players asked what they were doing, and the dealer said the couple binked $200K on a slot machine and they demanded cash. They sat there for a half-hour and the dude stuffed all the cash into his wife's handbag, shook everyone's hand and left with a huge smile.

That's just crazy. I never carry any cash. I keep a roll at the casino and if playing out of town, wire in and wire out. I just think they are the type that don't trust banks or think the casino is going to renege. They were in their 50's or 60's and kind of scruffy.

Of course they know it's going to be reported as the casino is not going to let you walk out without filling out a W-9 and CTRC, so maybe they want to roll around in it like Demi in Indecent Proposal, or perhaps they want to make a quick stop and pick up a few pounds of blow to restock inventory. Who knows?

As for taking out taxes on the spot, I think that's a bit different. There's a few reasons I can think of as to why someone wouldn't want to do that. The biggest reason is most gamblers don't ever owe taxes on winnings at the end of the year. I think BBJ dudes asking for cash instead of a check is probably because they've never held more than a grand or so and want $10K to play with at home.

You obviously dont have the intelligence to understand dick.

The other poster whom I referred to suggested all dealers are lying cheats. Well dh, I am not a cheat. Nor are most of the professional dealers in this business. Did you even see my statement and reference to the IRS Tip compliance agreement?

I don't give a damn what anyone tokes for a BBJP or anything else for that matter.

Funny thing is, if you've played in LV with any regularity, I've probably dealt to you and you've probably put me in the top 10% of dealers.

It just chaps my ass when people have no real clue and assume all sorts of **** about dealers and their incomes. As if it's anyone's business in the first place! The worst of it is when (usually low limit players) some idiot posts grand numbers because of his observance at his tables, extrapolates it out to an 8 hr day, 5 days a week, and figures we make 75k a year in tokes.

They don't know that the next down is a 5-10 PLO game where the dealer will be lucky to clear $10. Then after that it's a 200-400 mix game, that they get airballed on. Then they take a break, come back, a game goes down, and they end up dealing 10 mins, making $3, and going on a 45min break.

Then at the 6 hour mark, some more dealers have come in to start their shifts, and said dealer is forced out. This dealer may have only dealt for 3-4 actual hours of the 6.

*of course previous poster figures we lie about that to the IRS and cheat the income taxes.

Dealers in good rooms can make a decent living. But in this corporate world today, it isn't what it seems. The latest trend is to over staff, schedule fewer hours per dealer, don't let them work enough hours to earn benefits (30 hrs per week now with Obamacare coming). And it doesnt matter how good the dealer is if he/she doesnt have enough seniority to get a full time spot. See, accountants only allow so many "full time" spots in the room. Maybe 40% of the staff. So if you're a better dealer that came in after opening day, you may wait YEARS for "full time" status and the allowance to work 40 hrs per week.

I'm the first to admit I had a great month in July. With WSOP in town, working 5 x 10's, and getting lucky more than once I had a good month. More than the per capita nat'l avg. But now it's August, in LV. For the next 2 months I'll be well below the median and maybe 150% of the single individual poverty level. The hours will be low and the toke rate just doesnt hit $30 per hour during these months like so many here want to believe.

Point being, no dealers are getting rich. Some dealers are doing ok. Others are just working stiffs like any other working stiff in the US, trying to make a living and take care of themselves and family.

Players imo have far more entitlement issues than dealers.

LV would be the exception tbh.

Prior to the Moneymaker poker boom, Vegas was the absolute WORST place to deal poker.

In fact, there are far better locales to deal still. But LV is better than it was, and yes, the $$ has gone down from the peak yrs of say 2005-2010.

I've known dealers at the Commerce that are very happy. Have you considered making the trek to CA to deal or deal craps?

It's not anyone's business, until dealers come into a thread and suggest they're not making enough money and players should tip more money.

List what these are.

Since dealers are quite hush-hush about their incomes, what else is one to go on?

Since players are directly paying a significant portion of dealer's remuneration, it is their business. Public employees have their wages released as public information because it is the taxpayers paying their salaries. Same thing, no? The people paying for work have an interest in knowing such information.

I have standing offers in numerous locations. However, I made the choice 5-6 yrs ago to take my mother in so she could live near her grandkids (my nephews) in her waning years. She now has Alzheimer's and requires me to be around a lot. Moving is not in the cards until she passes. But if the time comes for me to move, it'll be northern cal most likely. Good rooms, good locations. Prefer Nor Cal.

In reference to your post about dealers coming in and suggesting they need you to toke more, tell em to pound salt imho.

Hey I may bitch & whine a little bit about not making enough money from time to time. But the factors making that happen have crap to do with the tippers needing to tip more. In fact it is never the $1 tipper that hurts the dealer income.

The stiffs affect the income.
The actual hours of in the box dealing time affect the income.

Without going into specifics, plenty of players think that they should be able to do anything because "they" are paying "my" salary.

Yes and no. IMO - You should tip what you feel is appropriate. How much a dealer makes should have ZERO influence on what you tip. If Bill Gates suddenly sat down and started dealing to me, I would tip him the same as anybody else. I'm not going to stiff him because he makes billions of dollars.

Those people suck.

I meant in reference to their income from the particular job that they're doing, not their wealth. Nobody's net wealth is the business of others. But if you're doing a job for me, I would want to make sure you get paid fairly, or at least that I pay my fair share (I can't control others...) And that goes both ways--it's not 'code' for 'I want to get by with as little as possible'. Sure, I wouldn't want to be a chump in any tipping situation, but I also want to give an appropriate amount...

I'm not sure you're making a point that helps your case here.

If you're complaining that you signed an agreement which results in you having to pay pay taxes on on income you didn't actually receive, well, hmm, who's fault is that?

If you're actual tips exceed the compliance agreement, well, then, I'm not really sure what you're complaining about.


"Hey boss, I need a raise because I have $xxxx in rent, $xxx car payment and $xxx elec bill."

Someday, when that argument works for all the rest of us, maybe it'll start to work for you too.

Some of us prefer not making 0% loans to the government.

Some of us prefer not to pay any taxes any sooner than absolutely required.

Funny thing is that some dealers don't realize that pretentiousness puts them closer to the bottom 10% and often ideas of being in the top 10% is only in their own minds.

I'll concede that many players probably do make a lot of assumptions that aren't entirely accurate about estimating dealers' income.

However, as 3700+ posts in this very thread has already demonstrated, dealers have overwhelmingly chosen to add mud to, rather than clear up the question.

You or any other dealer who is not willing to give a straight answer to a straight question, "How much do you make?" don't have a leg to stand on to complain when people have to guess at it.

You're absolutely right.

How much someone is paid for a job is nobody's business.

Except for the person getting paid and the person doing the paying....


.

(from "breakroom" thread) So, how much, how little, or even if you tip at all, you personally base on how profitable you are for the day?

Hmm. Yep. Ok. I can appreciate that.

It always boils down to money. My average take from the tables after 2200 hours of play is $0.81/hour. Am I a bad player? Probably. Am I a good player? Probably. I tip $1/pot. I win an ~3.2 pots/hour. If I didn't tip at all, I'd immediately increase my win rate by ~400%. Most players are net losers, right? I'm sure many of them would be net winners if they stopped tipping. But most players don't keep records. Dealing cards isn't the only job in existence. Nobody makes enough money ... you need to learn to live within your means.

When I get sucked out on in a big pot, the dealer doesn't throw me a dollar for my woes. Many dealers actually smirk and smile. Yet, I should tip every time I win a pot? If the house wasn't so busy raping everyone with their rake/drop, it would be better for everyone. Blame bad tips on the house, not on the players. If you get stiffed or only tipped $1 on a $1000 pot, you don't know if that players is stuck or not.

Like I said there are other jobs out there ... go get one. Leave the dealing to the dealers who enjoy their work ... some of them actually do and it shows.

This post wasn't directed at anyone specifically ... I guess may be to dealers in general. But you know if it applies to you or not. I guess I should just stop playing, then what are you going to do?

If everyone stopped tipping, that money would still come off of the table. It would have to, unless you want self-dealt games, which would be chaos and result in about 14 hands an hour.

I doubt many people would move from the negative to the positive simply by not tipping. A small percentage who are right near break-even might become tiny winners, that's all. It's not nearly as much as you think.

If you tipped $X during a session, not tipping doesn't mean you'd have had $X amount more at the end of it.

Why would that money still come off the table? The house makes money hand over fist. Let the house pay the dealers more. Let the house keep the good efficient dealers who know how to run an efficient game. More hands = more money. Dealers who don't cut the mustard could be let go. I will say the house objective may not be in line with what's best for the players - but I think there's enough overlap that the players would realize benefit - less shenanigans = more hands. Is it not true that in other countries tipping is not allowed - albeit I hear the rake/drop is obscene.

You may be right about the number of people who would switch from small loser to small winner - you may be wrong too. The effect of rake/drop is more significant than people give credit IMHO.

I think I would take $X more off the table. My double ups and getting stacked would both feel the impact of more chips in my stack - they'd cancel each other out and I'd take $X home on average.

I'm not saying I'm right. I know my take on reality is just that - my opinion. But I don't think I'm far off the mark if not hitting the nail on the head. But in the end it is what it is. I accept that of course.

Hey guys I want to apologize for my posts the other night, I was extremely drunk, and thanks to the spell check it fixes all the typo's and whatnot and sort of hides the fact.

I can see now that while dealers are making bank while dealing, they have down time and that eats into their hourly. Anyway is tipping $1 a hand reasonable when you win a post post flop?

If the house pays the dealers more, they aren't going to eat that cost, they're going to pass it on to the players in the form of an increased rake. There is zero conceivable chance that a casino would drop tipping and make a dealer salary go from, let's just make up numbers, $4 hourly to $20 hourly, and just cover the difference out of their own pockets. They'll jack up their take to cover it. You pay either way.

Players do 50x more to determine how many hands are dealt in any given down than a dealer ever can, so over a short sample, number of hands dealt is a horrid indicator of skill.

There's no way you'd be able to ascertain whether or not what you saved by not tipping would end up being cashed out in the end. The double up/getting stacked evening out thing you stated has been asserted time after time by the anti-tipping crowd. But, every time, they conveniently ignore the fact that if people kept those tips in their stack, there would be more on the table. More on the table means looser play, which means bigger pots, which means higher average rake, which means that a lot of the saved tips disappear anyway. Ergo, you don't get $X back by not tipping $X.

Absolutely.

I'm not certain this is the reason they do it (maybe for some), but yeah, these guys are *******s. I see this quite a bit, and I think it's because they're playing for substantial amounts of money and not because they're tipping a few bucks.

Straight answer from a dealer happy with his job. I average between $25-35/hr counting tips and base pay. My tips are taxed at 100% as the casino counts my tips and all of my money comes on my check.

My problem is fighting for a full time slot. All of my regulars love my dealing. I've had tables call the floor over and ask if I could stay. no brag just facts. I love giving players the best experience possible.

What have I done. Well I auditioned for Md Live and got hired part time. My audition was flawless not sure why I didn't get full time but that is out of my control. I started at Delaware park and moved to Hollywood casino due to a better opportunity. They choose not to offer me full time even though whenever they get a big game they call me cause they need a good dealer. not mad, it's their casino they run in how they want. So I go down to MD Live. Seems to me like the guy opening that room and I have the same goals, give the players the best experience ever.

I be only been dealing a year that might have factored into being hired part time but that is not the players tipping more or less that's something I have to keep pushing to improve to full time.

This job is not hard physically. Mentally it can be draining. The hardest part of the job that cost dealers the most money is time in the box. From being forced out to improper staffing, to to many breaks. The other part for part time dealers such as myself is health insurance is not there. I have $300 in prescriptions a month due to health problems. I've been an athlete my whole life so not like I haven't taken care of myself. But this is not the players who tip or don't tip fault. This is greedy corporate America who doesn't want to give out that many benefits so they can only hire so many full time dealers.

The bottom line is I'll keep giving both tippers and non tipping customers the same great experience that they deserve. Keep fighting for a full time slot, and keep loving my job.
Thanks for listening to my rambling, tired at 4am it's hard to formulate a well thought out post.

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Excellent post. Honest and drives the point home.