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Old 06-07-2011, 01:58 PM   #276
2OutsNoProb
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
A $2000 pot in a 1/2 game generally garners more than a $2 tip, certainly.
A $2000 pot in a 100/200 game doesn't seem to generate a dime.
This is 10xBB or 10 Big Bets, so while it would be nice if people were generous and tipped because $1 or $2 or $5 is nothing compared to the money on the table, this is understandable because 10xBB pots in smaller games often result in no tip as well.

Very, very few games are played at stakes where a $2000 pot is considered average or small. There are way, way more 1/2 NL, 2/5 NL, 5/10 NL games spread in the casino than there would be 50/100 NL
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:05 PM   #277
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
This is 10xBB or 10 Big Bets, so while it would be nice if people were generous and tipped because $1 or $2 or $5 is nothing compared to the money on the table, this is understandable because 10xBB pots in smaller games often result in no tip as well.

Very, very few games are played at stakes where a $2000 pot is considered average or small. There are way, way more 1/2 NL, 2/5 NL, 5/10 NL games spread in the casino than there would be 50/100 NL
I understand why there's no tip in that game.

I was simply demonstrating that a $2,000 pot in a game where $2,000 pots were abnormal might generate an abnormal tip; and a $2,000 pot in a game where $2,000 pots were routine might not generate a tip at all.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:25 PM   #278
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

After careful consideration I have decided to alter my tipping policy. I am curious how others, particularly dealers, feel about it. Feel free to voice constructive criticism or ideas of your own.

The Old Way
  • Tip $1-$2 after most winning hands. *Except for increasing the # of hands per hour the dealer has no control over their tips.*

The New Way
  • Tip $1 on decent sized pots (basically more action than cbet-fold), regardless of how big they get.
  • Tip $1 when the dealer speeds up the game by enforcing a rule, without being told to do so. Examples: Making a player move his hidden green/black chips to the front of their stack. Telling a player still involved in the hand to get off the phone. Making everyone move in front of their cup holder when a new player arrives.
  • Tip $1 when the dealer puts a stop to dishonest play without someone bringing it to their attention. Dishonest includes things like collusion, purposely announcing the wrong hand at showdown, and various angle shoots.
  • Tip $1 at the end of the down if the dealer makes no mistakes caused by carelessness (honest mistakes are forgiven since they're human).
  • Tip $0 for the entire down if the dealer is watching TV (glancing excluded), focusing more on personal conversations than the game, daydreaming, or doing anything else that slows down games and causes financial mistakes.

*Dealers are providing a service and they should be tipped based on the level of service provided. I feel that my new way will widen the salary gap between good and bad dealers, as it should be. It also provides them the opportunity to earn extra tips by going above and beyond.*
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:57 PM   #279
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by Ibuprofen View Post
After careful consideration I have decided to alter my tipping policy. I am curious how others, particularly dealers, feel about it. Feel free to voice constructive criticism or ideas of your own.
As long as you tip, you'll never have to search for your cards, reach half way across the table for your pot, be reminded the action is on you if you take more than 3 seconds to act, have your simple requests ignored ("Can you have them put that tv on the channel I like?" "Can you hit the button for the waitress?" etc), and so on.

As a bonus, though, if you tip me generously (more than 1 red bird in a down, for example), I'll have the floor hook you up with free food/drink vouchers.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:07 AM   #280
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by Ibuprofen View Post
[*]Tip $1 when the dealer speeds up the game by enforcing a rule, without being told to do so. Examples: Making a player move his hidden green/black chips to the front of their stack. Telling a player still involved in the hand to get off the phone. Making everyone move in front of their cup holder when a new player arrives.
[*]Tip $1 when the dealer puts a stop to dishonest play without someone bringing it to their attention. Dishonest includes things like collusion, purposely announcing the wrong hand at showdown, and various angle shoots.
[*]Tip $1 at the end of the down if the dealer makes no mistakes caused by carelessness (honest mistakes are forgiven since they're human).
[*]Tip $0 for the entire down if the dealer is watching TV (glancing excluded), focusing more on personal conversations than the game, daydreaming, or doing anything else that slows down games and causes financial mistakes.[/LIST]
Just as a point of information, for all the above items the system already rewards better dealers. Those who make lots of mistakes get out fewer hands. Nothing wrong with wanting to amplify the effect, and i would imagine as long as you're not winning huge pots for the stakes you're playing, no one will think twice if you tip $1 per pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
As long as you tip, you'll never have to search for your cards, reach half way across the table for your pot, be reminded the action is on you if you take more than 3 seconds to act, have your simple requests ignored ("Can you have them put that tv on the channel I like?" "Can you hit the button for the waitress?" etc), and so on.
I'm sure this happens a lot, but it's really unprofessional. That said, the vouchers are a nice bonus.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #281
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
As long as you tip, you'll never have to search for your cards, reach half way across the table for your pot, be reminded the action is on you if you take more than 3 seconds to act, have your simple requests ignored ("Can you have them put that tv on the channel I like?" "Can you hit the button for the waitress?" etc), and so on.
You are a lousy dealer.

If I see your kind treat a non-tipper like that, I immediately stop tipping you.

And how do you like reaching a bit further for the bets I no longer push fully forward? And how do you like reaching for my cards that I toss only 1/4 of the way to the muck? And how do you like me doing my "10 seconds for every decision" act?
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #282
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Im a Dealer, Dont always agree with Angus but in this case he is spot on. WE should take the high road and be proffessioal no matter if we get stiffed.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:17 PM   #283
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Just as a data point, i've started taking shots at $15/30 limit (with a kill to $30/60), and i've noticed that $1 per pot is fairly standard, even though this game is loose enough that pots routinely get to $200-300. It's one more data point to the "surprisingly large pot for the stakes" hypothesis.

That hypothesis deals with a more general principle of tipping: The more i feel that i've been the beneficiary of good fortune, rather than getting my just reward for risk, the more inclined i am to tip. If i make a straight flush*, i feel like tipping more. If i suck out on a one-outer on the river, i feel like tipping more. If i win a pot that's 30 times my hourly winrate at $1-2, i feel like tipping more. And of course, if i win a BBJ, i don't feel like, "About time! I've been donating to that fund for years," although that would be a very rational way to look at it. I feel fortunate to have hit the big score.

----
*Rarity goes hand-in-hand with this idea of good fortune. If i give an extra $1 every time i make a SF, even in Omaha, it will barely affect my winrate. Still, not very logical, is it? The dealer didn't work any harder than giving me JJ on an Axxxx board and making it hold up.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:26 PM   #284
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
As long as you tip, you'll never have to search for your cards, reach half way across the table for your pot, be reminded the action is on you if you take more than 3 seconds to act, have your simple requests ignored ("Can you have them put that tv on the channel I like?" "Can you hit the button for the waitress?" etc), and so on.

As a bonus, though, if you tip me generously (more than 1 red bird in a down, for example), I'll have the floor hook you up with free food/drink vouchers.
I was a dealer for several years, so PLEASE do not post crap like this. It's posts like this that start tipping arguments and make all dealers look bad. In this profession, you take the good tips with the bad ones. It all evens out in the end. You sound like you are a very young dealer. You better change that attitude or you will find yourself out of this profession very quickly. A lot of people don't tip for various reasons. Some don't tip because they are unaware... some don't tip because they are way down for the day (Hey, they may have lost a grand or 2 playing blackjack before coming there..) and others just do not believe in it. Like I said, if you are a competent dealer, you will make your money. I got stiffed everyday, but the majority of the time I got something, and everyone should get the same treatment. Keep it up and your tippers will become your stiffers.. heck, I would stiff you with that attitude.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #285
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
As long as you tip, you'll never have to search for your cards, reach half way across the table for your pot, be reminded the action is on you if you take more than 3 seconds to act, have your simple requests ignored ("Can you have them put that tv on the channel I like?" "Can you hit the button for the waitress?" etc), and so on.

As a bonus, though, if you tip me generously (more than 1 red bird in a down, for example), I'll have the floor hook you up with free food/drink vouchers.
If you make a mistake and act like this to a very large tipper, you lose. If a very large tipper is distracted today, you lose. If several complaint are made to the floor you lose.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:18 PM   #286
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
You are a lousy dealer.

If I see your kind treat a non-tipper like that, I immediately stop tipping you.

And how do you like reaching a bit further for the bets I no longer push fully forward? And how do you like reaching for my cards that I toss only 1/4 of the way to the muck? And how do you like me doing my "10 seconds for every decision" act?
I really couldn't care less. None of that bothers me. I can reach for cards/bets. My arms are plenty long enough. And take your 10 seconds to act. It gives me time to make sure the rake is correct, glance around the table and make sure no chips are going south, remind players no cell phones at the table (especially during a hand)... so I appreciate the favor.

The casino pays us to show up and do a job correctly. Tippers pay us for the service we provide. Non-tippers mooch off the service the tippers are paying for.

If you elect not to tip me, then I choose to not go out of my way for you. I'll do the absolute minimum the casino is paying me to do for you.

Quote:
If you make a mistake and act like this to a very large tipper, you lose. If a very large tipper is distracted today, you lose. If several complaint are made to the floor you lose.
lol tell the floor you had to reach a little for your pot, or your cards didn't land on top of one another, or I wouldn't ask them to change the channel on the tv. You'll get laughed at.

Just a little info.. floors typically hate the players. People take the pay cut to become a floor because they can't deal with whiney, nitty players anymore. Look at all the times people have mentioned they couldn't get what they wanted when they complained to a floor. It's because they hate you.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:33 PM   #287
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

There's sort of a principle of self-selection. Dealers with contempt for their customers don't have to take as much of a pay cut because their customers don't much like them either.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:36 PM   #288
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Haven't read the tread, but last night I was playing 1/3 and a player won a $1400 pot and tipped the dealer $60. It was the biggest tip I've ever seen and thought I'd share.

I can see being excited about winning a huge pot and giving a generous tip, but $60? Pretty crazy if you ask me, but I kept my opinion to myself at the table.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:58 PM   #289
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
...reach half way across the table for your pot...
I didn't notice this little pearl, but what exactly do you plan to do? Deal the next hand with the winner's money in the middle of the table? Splash the present hand's pot into the last hand's pot? That should be great for your hourly earn.

If you tried this with me, and i knew you were doing it, i wouldn't need to complain to the floor. I release cards when i get my money, so you'd spend the rest of your down trying to get the cards back from me and you calling the floor to explain why you're not ready to start the next hand.

(Although i too have long arms, so frankly i might not notice either.)
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #290
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post

Just a little info.. floors typically hate the players. People take the pay cut to become a floor because they can't deal with whiney, nitty players anymore. Look at all the times people have mentioned they couldn't get what they wanted when they complained to a floor. It's because they hate you.
Really? I never hated the players (in general..) Sure, I had a select few that I didn't care for because they were just plain jerks, but I am sure a few other floorpeople will come on here and also disagree with that comment.

Most of the time, players didn't get what they wanted from us because we COULDN'T get it for them. If they wanted a comped room and we were booked (except for the high stakes table/slot players) we just couldn't do it. It wasn't because we hated them.

You really need an attitude adjustment. You may think you are helping your cause with these posts, but you're just hurting EVERYONE'S...
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:50 PM   #291
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
You are a lousy dealer.

If I see your kind treat a non-tipper like that, I immediately stop tipping you.

And how do you like reaching a bit further for the bets I no longer push fully forward? And how do you like reaching for my cards that I toss only 1/4 of the way to the muck? And how do you like me doing my "10 seconds for every decision" act?
I'm not getting involved in taking sides in the argument between you two, or even contemplating the issue at hand. I'm simply commenting on the bolded part. I doubt the let-me-take-additional-time-so-as-to-screw-the-dealer act would ever fly, because the player would be hurting themselves AND drawing the ire of others at the table.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:07 PM   #292
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
The casino pays us to show up and do a job correctly. Tippers pay us for the service we provide. Non-tippers mooch off the service the tippers are paying for.

If you elect not to tip me, then I choose to not go out of my way for you. I'll do the absolute minimum the casino is paying me to do for you.
I think you bring up a point that is worth discussing. Should dealers provide good service because they receive tips, or should they receive tips because they provide good service?

To me it goes back to professionalism. Professionals do not usually start their careers making big money. They climb higher than the rest because they exhibit characteristics like pride, diligence, and respect for the industry that made them. Dealers should act professional before receiving a high salary; not after.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:28 PM   #293
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilhatesaloser View Post
The casino pays us to show up and do a job correctly. Tippers pay us for the service we provide. Non-tippers mooch off the service the tippers are paying for.

If you elect not to tip me, then I choose to not go out of my way for you. I'll do the absolute minimum the casino is paying me to do for you.
This answers a question a player asked in another probably soon to be deleted thread: Should you tip the dealer as you go or wait and tip them at the end of your time playing? The answer is simple, if you wait to tip at the end the dealer may well assume you aren't going to tip at all and treat you as a nontipper. I'm not going to get into the basic argument but if you are going to tip, tip early enough to do you some good!

A small example, I ordered take out chinese food yesterday. I got to the place to pick it up a little before the food was ready. The food is excellent, it is a mom and pop business, and the people are reasonably friendly and work their butts off. When I walked in the door and paid I left a nice tip in the jar. Other people had their food placed on the counter and they were called to come get it. Mine was brought to the table I was sitting at with a friendly smile. When I have ordered, paid, and tipped then ran next door to take care of a quick errand I have even had them see me coming and meet me outside with my food. I get great service because they know I tip. If I only tipped after I picked up my food at the counter they would never know I would tip until too late to benefit me. Tip or don't tip but if you tip make sure you do it in a manner that you get maximum bang for your buck tipping. Tossing a chip as soon as possible after you come to the table announces that you do tip. If you tip and still get treated poorly you can always not tip that particular dealer next time through.

Hu
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:08 PM   #294
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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This answers a question a player asked in another probably soon to be deleted thread: Should you tip the dealer as you go or wait and tip them at the end of your time playing? The answer is simple, if you wait to tip at the end the dealer may well assume you aren't going to tip at all and treat you as a nontipper. I'm not going to get into the basic argument but if you are going to tip, tip early enough to do you some good!
If you're looking for reasons not to tip, though, then you'd be happy to know the dealer was unprofessional before the point of decision.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:41 PM   #295
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I doubt that devil is a dealer.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:45 PM   #296
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Does anyone tip the cashier especially when they win? I usually do a dollar or two. However I have no idea if this is necessary. A cashier at Rite Aid in New York might make $13/hr but I don't know what the cashiers at the casinos make. Anyone have any advice on this?
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:09 AM   #297
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I didn't notice this little pearl, but what exactly do you plan to do? Deal the next hand with the winner's money in the middle of the table? Splash the present hand's pot into the last hand's pot? That should be great for your hourly earn.

If you tried this with me, and i knew you were doing it, i wouldn't need to complain to the floor. I release cards when i get my money, so you'd spend the rest of your down trying to get the cards back from me and you calling the floor to explain why you're not ready to start the next hand.

(Although i too have long arms, so frankly i might not notice either.)
I would simply call you out on not giving me your cards. This happens alot with older players at the 2/4 limit game anyway. I just tell them, "they're only good for one hand" with a smile. The rest of the table laughs and they throw their cards to me. So go ahead and hold on to them. You will be called out for not knowing what to do after a hand is completed.

Quote:
This answers a question a player asked in another probably soon to be deleted thread: Should you tip the dealer as you go or wait and tip them at the end of your time playing? The answer is simple, if you wait to tip at the end the dealer may well assume you aren't going to tip at all and treat you as a nontipper.
This has happened a couple times (go figure..). On the rare occasions it does, I feel bad and get them food or drink comps for being a dick to them. Hopefully they didn't notice.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:52 AM   #298
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by ******* View Post
Does anyone tip the cashier especially when they win? I usually do a dollar or two. However I have no idea if this is necessary. A cashier at Rite Aid in New York might make $13/hr but I don't know what the cashiers at the casinos make. Anyone have any advice on this?
Yes, I always leave the cashier a few bucks after I cash out. Where I worked, the cashiers started out at like $10/hr, and they got tipped sometimes, but not nearly as often as dealers. The one day after work I asked them how they made out with tips and they told me that at that cage with about 5 cashiers per shift, they would bring in about $150-$200 total per day in which they would all split it up 5 ways. So basically an extra $40 or so per person on average.. Now, that number may be a bit high because where I worked, the poker dealers cashed their chips out at the cage and 99% of them always tipped at least $1 or $2. Places where dealers don't keep their own tokes or where they get put on their check probably have cashiers that do not get tipped much.

A little sidenote: I really enjoy tipping people like cashiers, gas attendants, etc. because they usually don't "expect" the tips like dealers do. Even throwing them a buck or two really brings a smile.
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Old 06-09-2011, 11:35 AM   #299
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, if I don't get tipped after a hand, three different things go through my head:

1) The pot was really small.
Action taken: Can't force a pot-size. Get out another hand, might get another tip.
2) This player does not tip at all/does not tip when stuck/does not tip large, burly male dealers with shaved heads who aren't attractive women.
Action taken: Can't fix this either. Get out another hand, might get another tip.
3) I screwed something up in this hand, dealt sloppily, had no control of the table, etc.
Action taken: RUT ROH! Be as empathetic as I can toward the offended party. If I'm sick/in an insomniatic binge/in a bad headspace, hit the EO list with puppy dog eyes. If it was just a human error, after the empathy, get out another hand, might get a tip.

I like manuals. :P

Seriously, though, I've found most players are aware that I work off tips, and do their best to 'take care' of me. Been in a smaller room for a little more than a year, starting as a dual poker/pit dealer to earn my stripes. I've improved vastly, and really enjoy my gig. Most people are cool with that, and tip accordingly. Some do not. The only real action I can take in getting more money in is becoming a smoother dealer with a very solid game knowledge.

Also, it drives me insane when dealers ***** about tips publicly. I won't lie, in the breakroom, we've had long diatribes back-and-forth about a crap table, or a bad player. But I'm a professional, and I have to take the high road when in public.

As far as when I play, hit the bar, get dinner...I'm an overtipper. I've made my living for the last number of years off of tips in some way, shape or form and I give back. Once in my life, ONCE, when a player who was scooping many pots was just exceptionally high on dealer abuse, I intervened and began to toke the dealer, stating it's from him. And I slept fine that night.

Cliffs:
-Tipping is very cool, we like it.
-If you don't tip, we might think you're a dick, but we're going to try to not lose sleep over this, and we doubt you will either.
-No being rude in public over small/non-tips. Tis bad form.
-I am sort of like a very positive Dr. Cox with my rants.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:44 PM   #300
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

How 'bout the "You forgot me last hand" remark? I'll hear this from time to time, not directed at me tho!
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