My misunderstanding was when you said the dealer should be fired for tossing the dollar back. I thought you meant the dealer who tossed a dollar back to you. Now I see that you meant the dealer who was insulted by what he thought was an unacceptable tip. He wasn't fired but he was suspended for a week.

Yes, I can see the difference between a dealer who tosses a dollar back because he thinks it's too generous and a dealer who refuses a tip because he thinks it's too small. If you read my posts I think you'd see that I have a pretty clear understanding of the difference. Personally I would never refuse any tip for reasons that I already outlined.

Fair enough, but I think I mentioned it in like 3 different posts that it was not because the dealer thought it was a cheap tip, so of course I wouldn't suggest he should be fired.

Simple yes or no question: do you think the dealer who was suspended should have been fired?

You want the simple answer: No, I don't think that this dealer should have been fired.

Now I'll give you the more complicated answer that I know you didn't ask for.

This is a good dealer who is liked by the majority of the players and by all of his coworkers. He shows up on time, runs an efficient and fair game, and usually has a good attitude. He's a good employee who was having a bad day. I've never heard of him having any behavior problems while on the job before or since that incident.

But absent that extra info that I know you didn't ask for, do I think that insulting a player in that manner could be a fire-able offense? Yes, I agree with you on that one. I just don't think it's as black and white an issue as you seem to.

If I was a poker room manager, these are the offenses that would be one strike and you're fired on the spot:

- Theft
- Cheating (participating in collusion, dealing from the bottom of the deck, etc.)
- Coming to work drunk or stoned
- Physically striking a player or coworker
- Verbally abusing a player (cussing him/her out at the table)

Just about any other offense would be looked at on a case by case basis in my room with penalties ranging from "verbal coaching" to immediate dismissal.

Really I'm trying to understand, but I simply cannot see what is so difficult about saying, "Thank you" and putting the check in your pocket. Even the hardest day of your life, just taking the check and putting it in your pocket requires the least amount of effort in the job. He doesn't even have to say anything, just tap the check against the table and be done with it.

So if getting a small tip on a big pot causes a dealer to rudely refuse a tip, then there's an underlying issue he has with tipping. An issue that upsets him. An issue that's been the focus of the last few pages of this thread.

The player who gave the tip has a history in the room and is disliked by every dealer, floor person, and a majority of the regs. He constantly complains about insignificant things, has a negative attitude, whines, and disrupts the game. He's been ejected from the room several times and has driven players to threaten him with physical harm. The question of why he is allowed to continue to play in my room is frequently asked.

So all of this (and not the dealer's anger at receiving a small tip) may have been the underlying issue that you're looking for. However, the $1 tip on that particular hand was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back.

This person is disliked by every dealer, floor person and majority of regs; he constantly complains about insignificant things, whines, has a negative attitude, disrupts the game and has been ejected from the card room several times?

Wow.

I'm surprised at 4 things:

1) You said: "The player was insulted (rightfully so) and complained to a supervisor." With that track record, it's rather shocking any dealer would think he had a right to be insulted by the dealer tossing the check back. I mean, **** him, right?

2) That the floor would suspend a dealer from the complaint of an obnoxious player that complains constantly and has been ejected several times.

3) Certainly with such history, the dealer wasn't expecting a $5 tip, so I'm surprised that getting exactly what he anticipated broke the camel's back.

4) That you would expect anyone to believe this.

A tip is a tip. The player *deserved* to be thanked, even if the dealer was privately thinking "screw you" to himself.

The dealer behaved in an unprofessional manner. Maybe if the dealer didn't do it in front of other players it would have been different. He set a horrible example and acted unprofessionally.

This surprises you? The dealer was frustrated by the player in general. I wasn't at the table when it happened, but the player was likely in the middle of one of his diatribes complaining about the a/c, the high rake, the lack of quality dealers, or whatever else was on his mind. And to top it off, he won a monster pot in a hand against other players who generally behave themselves and tip better than he did. And who knows what else was on the dealer's mind that day. Maybe he got in a fight with his wife that morning or he got a phone call from a bill collector.

Whatever.

I'm speaking about you saying he had a right, not the dealer. Kudos to you for feeling even the worst, obnoxious players in the room have a right to be treated fairly by the dealer.


Yes, he did. Every room I've played at though, with those kinds of players, it would be a non-issue to a floor supervisor. These things are non-issues when considering belligerent players; no one at the table cares either.


Again, just tap the table and stuff the check into your pocket. Bill collector...? Christ...

I agreed with you that even the most annoying/disliked of players deserves the courtesy of a thanks for any tip.

I agreed with you that the dealer acted unprofessionally.

Can't you see that I'm not making excuses for the dealer's behavior, but just trying to explain that maybe this one slip up doesn't merit him losing his job? The player put the dealer on tilt. He lost his cool. I don't know if he was in a good mood or not that day but I do know that somehow or another this player pushed him over the edge and he acted in an unacceptable manner. The price of this was a week without pay. And I'm sure that the incident is in his permanent job file and that the next time he does something like that he could be facing a longer suspension or termination.

Yes. Providing you are not exaggerating at all about this belligerent player and he was having one of his episodes during his down, then I don't think he even should have been suspended.

I can see this dealer was provoked by this particular douchebag player. But then how did this dealer handle the other belligerent player last weekend? The one who was insulting other players, dropping F-bomb after F-bomb, animated in his chair constantly bumping the players next to him, spilling his beer on the table all over the cards, and tipping significantly more than anybody else at the table. These situations ought to be considered in determining his disciplinary action and it might be less black and white.

^ less grey

Wow that's all I have to say about how idiotic this thread has become. If someone deserves to be fired for one heat of the moment episode then no one in the world would have a job. And I know I'm wrong blah blah blah whatever because everyone on here is perfect.

Nonsense.

Dealing 6 less hands per down to a table of non-tipping players costs me exactly $0, while it reduces those players' winrate at my establishment by just over 25%. That is *precisely* the proper response to players who come into my establishment and pick a fight (er, excuse me ... "take a stance") to destroy the wages of the very people who provide them with the games they rely on for their livelihood.


q/q

If it's over the amount of a tip, then it's pretty reprehensible for someone that works in the tipping industry. Heat of the moment over someone giving you money when he's not obligated?

Dealer throws the deck at a player? Dealer curses at a player? Dealer threatens a player? Just heat of the moment episodes?

Half the table tips and half doesn't. What's your response, deal fewer hands?

It also reduces the casinos hourly take on that table, The very establishment that allows you to make a living. How do you think they feel about that?

this might be one of the dumbest and illogical things that i have seen in a while

your dealing slow does not affect my winrate at all if i am going to play for a typical session of over 5 hours and it is a busy room with many dealers

actually, your dealing slow can make my winrate go up for various reasons, i.e., i am involved in less hands, another player gets up there is now an empty seat next to me and i now get dealt pocket 10's instead of 8-2, i could have lost $30.00 on one of those hands you did not deal, etc.

do you see why you are wrong?

actually, if you are nice, engage in friendly talk, smile, and just do a good job, mostly everyone will toss you at least a $1.00 per hand which might equal over $50,000.00 per year which is a good living

if someone does not tip, that is their right

if tipping was mandatory, your tip would just be taken out of the pot just like the rake and BBJ similar to when the waiter's tip is added onto large dining parties

Please do not use meaningless analogies about waiters' tips or any other profession that receives tips in order to support your argument. That type of "logic" does not apply ITT.

He already said that the casino expects 15 or so hands per down. So they are getting exactly what they expect from their employee who does this. My guess is that they feel quite happy that he is meeting expectations.

If you're serious, now that is an absolute undeniable damn shame. You'll even be getting dealers shaking their heads in disgust after reading that one.

I've seen dealers who were too slow just due to incompetence get pushed after dealing 3 or 4 hands on a table just because it was obvious none of the players had the patience for it.

I can't even imagine what would happen if it looked like you were slowing the game down intentionally...Someone complains and you'd be replaced immediately for sure and I'd guess suspended or fired.

I'll have to disagree with the consequences of the "what if dealer slowed down intentionally"

1- the casino was the one who hired that dealer they should know their competence level.

2- dealer could make up excuses such as "I did my best by coming to work even tho I feel like s%^# today" when confronted by management

3- doubt that suspension or firing would occur, most likely a simple written warning

4- lots of houses are union houses, not that easy for dealer to get fired over stupidity

If what I said isn't the case, then it should be the case.

A dealer slowing down the game b/c they feel they are getting stiffed is not just wrong and ridiculous, but, downright disgusting.

QuadsOverQuads has definitely lost most intelligent people's respect.

That would be an EV question.


q/q