I'm with the first poster here. Maybe using the words "simply unforgivable" are an example of hyperbole, but the message is valid. Talking about tips at all on a table is a no-no and I'm always careful about it when I'm in the box. Players will ask me if the tips are better at higher limits or how much money did a co-worker receive for dealing a jackpot. I'll always give polite, but vague answers to these questions. And I would never ever identify a specific player as a bad tipper while dealing no matter how many times he's stiffed me.

To the first poster, I will add that there is, in fact, another place in addition to the breakroom where you can safely complain about tipping. It's called the 2+2 website.

This forum is great for asking questions to dealers, as you never know quite what dealers' expectations are. Thanks for the response in terms of probable reactions both inside and outside of the breakroom!

[QUOTE=2OutsNoProb;34162606]They would be ridiculous to do so and sure as hell shouldn't. $4k for being the individual lucky enough to deal the particular board required for this to happen is more than generous. I would think no one would complain about this.

Also, off topic, but "generally"? How many BBJ's have you been a part of?
QUOTE]

I agree 100% with you sir, although I've certainly gotten surprised by underestimating the greed of others before . I have only been a part of table shares in the past (outside of winning high hands or raffles), and certainly for nowhere within a fraction of the $180K that was referenced earlier. I was curious how the expectations might change for an amount that high. Cheers!

coffee_monster & 2OutsNoProb, take a week off from this thread. If you post in here again before 8/15, you get a ban. You may direct comments/suggestions/complaints to the Moderation Discussion Thread.

Actually, no, you should have kept it to the breakroom only. There's more than enough tipping complaints from dealers that I've read here to convince me to tip significantly less.

Actually, yes, it's safe for me to do it here as it's anonymous and I'm in no jeopardy of getting in trouble with my managers at work.

But I'm sure that in your line of work, nobody ever complains about customers or clients.

So the dealers where you play post here? Or is this just an excuse to tip poorly? I can count out numerous posts by a great many dealers here that are not tipping complaints at all but instead are the opposite. But those don't convince you to tip significantly more?

Really, either you are guilty of sleective reading or you're just looking for excuses to not tip. Don't blame it on some dealers here - dealers who you probably will never meet and wouldn't know if you did. Man up.

Most people tend to overtip in my opinion. You are sitting down at a game in which you are paying rake and someone is employed to deal. I do tip and especially well if dealer is nice and makes game enjoyable but I dont tip just to tip.

If you sit down at a game for 8 hours one day add up what you tip and you will get an idea as to if you undertip or overtip.

I was a good tipper before I ever became a dealer. Now I'm an overtipper, but to be fair, I frequently play at tables where I'm known as a dealer, and there's an expectation (fair or not) that dealers take care of other dealers, and it's a custom that I respect.

With that disclosure, I've tipped $328 over 28 hours played in August, all at 1-2 tables. That amount includes 2 green chip tips on large pots. Also, I will always tip at least $1 on every pot, even if it's just stealing the blinds.

No, I don't expect others to tip like I do. And the truth is, if I was out of town and didn't know the dealers, I wouldn't tip quite so much, but I'd still be one of the most generous players at the table.

My point is, I do count my tips. I'm there to supplement my income and I realize that tipping hurts my hourly EV as a player. But I feel like tipping is the right thing to do. They provide a service. They work for tips. I freely and knowingly sit at the table knowing this, and so I tip.

Again I say you not to anyone specifically, but you dealers as a whole. So no, it's actually not entirely safe for dealers to complain anonymously about cheapness here because it has resulted in a reduction from the players tipping pool.

Considering I live where there are many poker rooms it is quite likely that dealers where I play do post here. I agree there are also plenty of posts that are not tipping complaints though there's no way that those would or should convince me to tip even slightly more. It's not a matter of selective reading, all it takes is one dealer's implication that receiving a tip is cheap to turn me off. Anything other than "tip however you feel" hurts your (dealer's) cause.

Yes, I understand your point now, just as I understood it the first time you made it.

Nearly everyone in any line of work feels that they are underpaid and wants to make more money than they're making. This is true of tv and movie stars, and professional athletes who make millions and want more. It's also true of poker dealers who make considerably less. And it's also true of any other profession you can think of, including your own profession, Lester (or your former profession if you're retired).

So what you're saying now is that you were under the delusion that poker dealers are just as happy with a $1 tip but a $5 tip, or just as happy with no tip as a $1 tip. When I deal a $2000 pot at a 2-5 NL table, my experience has taught me that I'll usually get at least $5. It's not uncommon for me to get $10 or more. So, yeah, I'm disappointed when I get $1. Especially when a good tipping reg was in the hand and I know I was looking at $10 or more if he'd won the pot.

Does that make me hate the $1 tipper? Not necessarily. Does that make him a cheapskate? Again, not necessarily. But I'm accustomed to a certain amount in various circumstances, and I got less than I normally would have.

I'm not talking about what I deserve or what I'm entitled to. That topic and line of reasoning has been beat into the ground in this thread. What I'm talking about is an expectation I have based on past experience. And in this instance the result doesn't live up to the expectation.

I can't imagine that my sharing this with you would come as a huge revelation to you. Maybe you just never thought about it before.

Or maybe it's like another poster said, and you're just looking for a reason to not tip the dealers in your room (the vast majority of whom have never posted on 2+2).

But don't hang it on me and the other dealers ITT for being honest and open about how we feel. We're greedy? Everyone's greedy. Tell me something I don't know.

The bolded has happened to me several times at Delaware Park with a few of the younger male dealers who are always chatting it up with their friends at the table. No tips for them in the future, that's my biggest annoyance with dealers. If they cost me money then I'm going to cost them money. I'm okay with dealers talking during the hand, but when it starts to affect the outcomes/action of hands then it becomes a problem.

Whether I like the dealer or not, as long as they deal correctly I will give them $1 per pot where I win more than $100. Occasionally, I'll tip $2 on big pots if they are really good and have been keeping the game moving well.

A misinterpretation of my point is not an understanding. You can't just simply say "I'm thankful for any tips I receive"? As a player that is my expectation from a dealer. No comparisons, no implications, no animosity.

I understand your point entirely. I promise.

On the floor I'm expected to act professional, and even if I wasn't expected to, I would still behave myself professionally. That means treating every player with courtesy, being polite, and showing gratitude for every tip I receive.

If you're at my table and act pleasantly and don't disrupt the game, I promise we'll never have a problem with each other. If you find it in your heart to throw me a buck for my efforts, I'll tap the bank with it and give you my thanks.

Here on a forum, I'm going to tell you what I really think and I'll share things with you that I wouldn't say at the table. Isn't that at least part of the reason we have these threads?

And it should go without saying that I don't speak for any other dealer. Not the other dealers who post online, not the ones who work at my casino and have never heard of 2+2, and certainly not the dealers who work in your casino and might have opinions all their own that differ entirely from mine.

I see Lester, that you and bolt are having quite a back and forth. I must say when I saw this post I interpreted it as an excuse/justification for lowering your tips as well.

Also as a player, I appreciate the candidness that bolt is willing to give us on this anonymous forum.

Well you're right if the interpretation is a reason to reduce tips. However, it seems like the cause is what's misunderstood. While I always thought I was an adequate tipper I would have continued along that way. Ignorance is bliss. Upon reading this thread I conclude that dealers would perceive me as cheap. That's certainly not going to have me tip more, rather I will tip less knowing I wasn't entirely appreciated.

I changed my tipping from

- tipping a lot

to

-none at all

and finally

$1 for every $30+ pot I win, seem good.everyone?

I once recieved a Christmas bonus from a job which came to $36 and change after taxes. Another time at another job I recieved a raise which after taxes came to about $8 per bi-weekly paycheck, far less than a standard cost of living increase.

It is not uncommon in these situations to be somewhat resentful that the bonus or raise was below expectations. Not many people will look to an almost insignificant financial reward and just appreciate what they got.

These happened in non-casino, non-tipped jobs that I have had. I am sure many people have similar stories as well.

I, for one, wouldn't tell someone who after working for a company that was doing well for two years that they should appreciate that 1% raise. I have no problem if that person doesn't just appreciate that barely noticable pay hike, if it actually bums them out a little bit.

I think most people view raises and holiday bonuses differently than you do. I think most wouldn't be resentful. You sound like just because it's Christmas and you're going to spend a bunch of money on gifts, that your employer should give you a huge bonus.

Let's be fair. He said somewhat resentful which is, by definition, less than resentful.

Would the post bother your sensibilities less if he had said he was disappointed that the bonus was smaller than he'd been hoping for?

I don't think that most people view them any differently than I do and you are conveniently ignoring the raise issue that I brought up.

There have been employees at jobs for as long as there has been jobs who recieved raises they were dissapointed with, that there was an expectation of more which mitigated whatever extra money they recieved.

Do you deny this?

Wouldn't deny that, but it's irrelevant nonetheless. Comparisons to other tipping models and other jobs don't fly. Poker players are not employers and have no obligations to tip. So if / when they do tip it should be fully appreciated. Besides, there's a balance. You get over tippers, avg tippers, small tippers, and non tippers. Expectations of more from the latter three would more likely encourage them to give less.

It is completely relevent. It is exactly about the expectation of an increase in wages.

Just because you don't like that dealers have expectations for larger tips when they push a big pot doesn't mean those expectations are not there - but even more importantly, it doesn't mean those expectations are unfounded.

You use the word obligation but it's a strawman since nobody said that tipping was an obligation and also no non-unionized, non-contract employee has an obligation to recieve a raise of any kind, let alone dictate the amount. Yet, you agree full well that a low raise can be seen as an insult. What's the difference again?

A strawman? Wow, too often when dealers attempt to be funny they aren't (dealer's not exclusive). I took this as an attempt to be serious, but it made me laugh. Yeah, nobody said tipping was an obligation including me. Maybe I'm the only poker player (or dealer) who finds comparing the pay of a poker dealer to other professions irrelevant, but I doubt it. It's irrelevant to me because no other paying jobs whatsoever influence how I decide to tip. What I don't deny is the disappointment in receiving less than expected, that's natural. It's the expectations that are too often unrealistic that only set up for disappointment. As for dealing (what's relevant here), just because some players tip bigger on bigger pots it's unrealistic to expect everyone (unfounded) to as if it's routine. Hate to be repetitive, though it's been claimed as understood, the responses suggest otherwise: why can't all dealers simply say "I'm thankful for all tips I receive"?

You want them to lie?