I don't and I know.

What I'm saying is that those games are a bad value. The customers want them, don't know better, and it makes the casinos money (though they seem to say it doesn't). Those players should play home games. I don't see what the casino offers a person playing for a few bucks. Added security? I don't think sophisticated thieves are making a habit of busting up a game for maybe a thousand bucks or so. Attracting weak competition to a common location? It's low stakes poker everybody plays and the casino brings in no additional value (if they do it nowhere near compensates for them being 10X the player anybody else is).

Now higher stakes some of those things come into play. Having (something resembling) real security and legitimacy and bringing in gambling dollars means something in those games. It's not that it can't be done in other venues but it has a real value.

Also, I meant higher stakes games deserve higher tokes/rake/whatever than lower games (again, because there's actual value there). That doesn't mean they deserve higher tokes/rake/whatever than what low stakes games take. Those games just take way too much whereas high stakes games take a little too much. If somebody pays $100 for hamburger and I pay $100 for a decent steak it doesn't mean I'm underpaying. That's what the higher stakes expectations are like. Some drunk tourists throws $20 at a dealer who has a nice smile on a $200 pot and they for some reason think that should translate. It's insane.

It's the same thing in table games. I play for fun and tip. That said, I basically don't make any long shot bets anymore. It's not worth it. Not only do you donate but you flip somebody 5 bucks for 40 seconds work and they roll their eyes at you. I'm an easy player to deal to in those games. I never complain, never take shots, play fast/know all the rules, don't get sloppy...just because my chips are a different color the guy pitching those cards should get rich? The guy running the joint could have his 12 year old pitch the cards to me (and he couldn't do that at the $5 table) why should I pay a premium? Same thing in poker.

It is what it is though not worth arguing. I wouldn't tip a huge amount on a jackpot if I played in a game that had one and I wouldn't tip much at all on a tourney score (and the culture is also one of the reasons I don't play many tourneys). I tip a lot in the cash games but am sure I'm called cheap because I don't tip any more for a huge pot than a medium one. I think one year I'm just going to count up all the (reasonable but considered cheap) tips I'd make and hand some random dealer a huge check at the end of the year. Instead of all of them calling me cheap and me losing a ton of money all but one will call me cheap, one will love me, and I'll lose a lot of money. Seems like a better deal.

$1/2 is the most common game pretty much everywhere... And some people think it should be done away with?

At least pick a good dealer who doesn't roll his eyes for an average toke.

I think you are vastly overstating how easy it is to get home games together. The idea that 1/2 NL and 3/6 or 4/8 Limit players should just go play home games is pretty silly. It doesn't work that way for too many reasons to even name.

It's *way* easier to keep a card room running than it is to keep a home game running...

I have to decline so many small games that I feel like a heel for coming up with all the lame excuses. Go to a wedding reception..."hey, you play cards we get together on Monday nights good times come play!", shoot some dice and accidently say some poker expression and the degen next to me starts talking about the bi-weekly tourneys his cousin runs that get three dozen or so runners. On and on.

It's hard for me to believe anybody that can figure out how to get to a casino and play a poker game can't get some kind of low stakes poker game together. Heck, with the internet how it is now you don't even have to be half way social to do it.

That's certainly been my experience anyway. If you put yourself in gambling circles games like that beat you over the head to the point of being annoying.

Those games are beating you over to head to the point of being annoying because they're desperately trying to keep seats filled.

This has probably been answered already in this thread, but it's long and I'm not gonna read the whole thing. So if any dealers or players would give me a quick opinion I'd very much appreciate it.

If I were to just give every dealer $1 when they sat down(so tipping $2/hr) and only tip additionally on very large pots(200bb+), would that be frowned upon. I'm struggling to find a way to be fair to both dealers and myself. I think I'm tipping too much, but I feel kinda nitty if I don't toss $1 on every 20bb pot I win.

The dealer would be happy getting a $1 for nothing when then sat down then sad when you stiffed them on other pots you won on that down.
Just tip them $1 on normal sized pots and nothing on smallish pots with little action.

I'd be fine with it, cause I can think big picture, I know a lot of dealers would hate it, and it would definitely be a paycut.

Won a table share of $3795

Tipped the dealer $100, nothing to the floor, and $15 to the cage.

How'd I do?

CHEAPSKATE!!!

You did fine.

Ok, so about a week ago I was so turned off by some of the responses here regarding what is / isn't cheap vs generous that I declared I would stop tipping altogether. Well, I was unable to hold myself to that while at the tables this past week. Now I'm reflecting. I remember the very first time I ever played live poker and being told that you should tip 10% of what you win. This pressured suggestion was meant towards each individual win and did not account for cumulative winnings. So in all actuality dealers are getting tipped way the hell more than 10% since poker players as a whole have net winnings of <$0. Essentially a cheap tip does not exist and every tip is generous. Anyway, I log my results and calculated the percentage of my cumulative winnings, including bonuses, given in tips (excluding my first year playing when I tipped a lot more while my net was a loss). What I'd like to know is the percentage other winning players are giving away say in a year / lifetime. Also what do dealers think is fair?

I tip a buck if the dealer has to put out all five cards. Nothing if it ends before that. Dealers seem to like me fine even though I'm a miserly tipper.

I've been playing live for almost 8 years. I've tipped thousands and thousands of dollars. Some rooms, dealers, floors, think I'm a cheapskate. Some love me.

I used to tip about $1 a hand as standard. Not anymore.

Here's what I suggest:

$1/hand standard if dealer is standard or better.
$0/ no flop
$0/ very small pot
$0/hand for the hand if dealer does anything wrong during the hand.
$0/hand for any hand (FOREVER) if dealer does anything seriously wrong, argues with you, or is rude.

$2/hand dealers I like. For whatever reason. (usually going to be good dealers/better service, said right things or didn't say anything at all, etc.)

$5/hand dealer I like and BIG pot.


$5 to floor on a decent winning session if they made some sort of personal cordial contact or I know them, or they hooked me up with a seat.

$0 FOREVER if they make a wrong decision against me.

I understand the last point may be extreme, but since in CA the floors accept tips and make rulings, this is the only reasonable play for an expert winning player who never angleshoots and feels the rules are there to protect him.

Floors: Be well aware winning players expect the floors to protect them and if they don't they will be rightfully shafted forever.

Oh.. and on BBJs/Tournaments... I would never tip over 1% of a BIG win. Even that I would go to the dollar amount... $1000 is always going to be a GREAT tip. Even on a million win.

If I felt like I would be talked **** about for tipping a grand or $500 on any amount... I might just not tip at all... and say intercourse you back.

There are good dealers and I appreciate them. I try to show them. They usually are more appreciative of me... a good player... who keeps the game moving fast and is able to settle decisions that don't require floor or shift just by backing the dealer or confirming an obvious rule.

You guys sound like *******s.

Thanks to this thread, I'll have no problem stiffing the next ******* dealer.... even though I normally did.

The employee chat thread (which I've completely read) made me think a little differently...

I intend to reward the good dealers and punish the bad ones. I hope the rest of you winning players will do the same.

^^^

nice post, although 5 bucks per big pot/dealer you like must be denting your bottom line. Bad players, as well as floors and dealers who don't play alot will NEVER realise how generous you are actually being by tipping adequately.

Over this years sample I have tipped .50 GBP per HOUR, over alot of hours. Although dealers here are considerably worse

Nice touch, although a little blatant if your looking to fly under the radar. How about tipping the dealer the first 20bb pot, and then not until you scoop a big one. This is my method, and you don't draw attention to yourself every 30 mins

Agreed. My tipping suggestions are not only below "customary" or "what dealers expect," but actually very generous...

Any smart winning player will agree with that.

I am. That $5 on the $400-500 pot (average) to $1000 pot (less likely) matters. No doubt.

Overall I might be losing .50 cents an hour or something because of it. (total guess, no idea.)

It's still worth it for me to reward the dealers who I think do things right, because, when it comes down to it... I can be a serious bastard and think bad dealers should practically be fired on the spot if i have to complain.

you guys have it easy trust me

come and see the dealing standard in London you would have a meltdown!

I don't know man.. out of about 100 dealers at the two casino/cardrooms next to me... I can only think of about 5 good dealers.

My standards aren't too high, imo, but, I am a winning player who treats poker as an income and not for fun.

I do notice everything and thousands of small strikes do add up to big strikes.

I'd just like to add:

I think it's VERY important to tip the good dealers and good floors/etc. while NOT TIPPING the bad. Some people in this thread have taken a "never tip" attitude... which is understandable, but, not optimal.

Tip the good, that way when the bad dealers/floors talk **** about you (which they do) the managers and other employees will automatically think it is their bad service that is the culprit and not you being a cheapskate. They will be looked at differently. After all, the good floor and the good dealer, thinks you tip better than average. And believe me, they think they are a better dealer and better floor than average. (and the management know who is better than whom.) So It will make sense to them.

The environment in a room can change entirely if just the shift, lead floor, one floor, or your dealer think you are a standup guy and the rest think you're a cheapskate.

As a dealer of four and a half years, who takes a lot of pride in his job, and loves the game. You would be my favorite kind of player. I love when I get a table full of regs who are expecting a good 30 minute performance from me. I know that if I do my job correctly and efficiently, I am easily looking at a $18-$25 down. I would consider myself to be a very solid dealer, and I have made very good under the table money working at private clubs. It is the $1-2/hand tipping regulars who contribute the most to my income. So that I'll thank you for.

As a player, I also do not tip poopy dealers. Yes that may sound bad coming from a dealer, but why should you be rewarded for performing poorly? Some dealers feel they are owed money for every pot they push, and that is the wrong attitude to have in this business. If somebody doesn't throw you a buck, just move on, deal a little quicker, and hope the next winner is a reg like this guy I quoted, and tips you $2. Regulars are who you make the most from in the long run, and as a dealer you must know that.

All dealers need to keep in mind, we go through variance just like players, and it has to be the long term result that we are concerned about. If you work hard, and perform well every day on the felt, the end of the year result can be the only thing that matters.

- Muck

What makes a dealer not worth a tip?

I won't tip when...

--> the dealer does not acknowledge a tip I've given him/her;
--> the dealer screws up while chatting it up with regulars or otherwise not paying attention to the action; or
--> the dealer does something unprofessional that kills the mood/action at the table.

However, I'll tip even when I don't win a pot for...

--> going above and beyond the call of duty when handling difficult players who are fish; or
--> having a very strong down in which the dealer dealt quickly and accurately with no (or maybe one or two inconsequential) errors.