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Old 07-28-2012, 09:15 AM   #2526
SomethingStickey
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I never had a problem with a reg tipping a dollar a hand 5 on huge pots the problem I get is the people that don't tip at all. Newbies I let slide, tiny pots, and only pushing the blinds I feel is not getting stiffed. But when I'm pushing pot after pot your way and nothing that's when a dealers blood boils. As far as bbj I have my opinion and its actually less than other dealers but more than players on this thread.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:42 AM   #2527
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by SomethingStickey View Post
But when I'm pushing pot after pot your way and nothing that's when a dealers blood boils.
Speak for yourself.

Non tippers don't bother me a bit.
There are some who tip more than average so it all evens out.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:11 AM   #2528
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It does even out and I'm not speaking for myself because I'm sure you heard about the guy in seat whatever stiffing your co workers on any given night. I know I do lol.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:35 PM   #2529
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I've posted on both ends of the spectrum in this thread, and agreed with and disagreed with both players and dealers. But, the one thing that continues to stand out is how insanely nitty some players here are about what are small, irrelevant amounts of money at the end of the day. You're not going to acheive some level of financial dominance by making the brilliant and shrewd decision not to tip so that you can cash out $278 from your 1/2 NL session instead of $262. It really won't matter to you a week from now whether or not you tipped a buck-per-decent-pot won over the course of a few hours long session.

I'm awaiting the detailed mathematical response that I'm sure is coming where I get told how much the above adds up when someone is a full time pro, because, you know, we have so many legitimate adult full time 1/2 NL pros on this site that such an example would apply to.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #2530
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post

I'm awaiting the detailed mathematical response....
Well, I am waiting the detailed mathematical response from the you-must-tip-or-else crowd how Bill not tipping Mike on the 3 pots he pushes him each day will make a significant difference to Mike. Enough to justify Mike treating/talking about Bill like most would a pedophile (in fact, Mike would kiss up to a pedophile if the pedophile was a good tipper -- to be fair, a lot of players would kiss up to a pedophile if he were a major fish).
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #2531
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I'm required to count out all of my tips in front of a supervisor, under the camera, and all I get at the end of my shift is a receipt. I get a paycheck every other Friday that includes my hourly wages and my tips, both of which have been taxed.
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Anybody who works at a tribal casino does. We are forced to report our earnings every night as we cash out. We are taxed on the full amount.
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I apologize I'm reading this thread in an " attacking the dealers manner" seeing that's not the case here now. You are right but our employer relies on the consumer to pay our salaries( no fault of mine or yours). The casino relies on you to reward performance. When I look at it from that view I see your argument. But you also go fully aware of how it operates. You do win from me I have no answer for why the tip should depend on the size of the pot.... Nothing here sorry fellow dealers.
First two, good to see these things are more accurately reported these days. When I was playing for a living it seemed no one had to report tips above some super minimum threshold. They all saw it as a great perk, really it just made me tip them less though.

So that's a no from you SS?
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:38 PM   #2532
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
I've posted on both ends of the spectrum in this thread, and agreed with and disagreed with both players and dealers. But, the one thing that continues to stand out is how insanely nitty some players here are about what are small, irrelevant amounts of money at the end of the day. You're not going to acheive some level of financial dominance by making the brilliant and shrewd decision not to tip so that you can cash out $278 from your 1/2 NL session instead of $262. It really won't matter to you a week from now whether or not you tipped a buck-per-decent-pot won over the course of a few hours long session.

I'm awaiting the detailed mathematical response that I'm sure is coming where I get told how much the above adds up when someone is a full time pro, because, you know, we have so many legitimate adult full time 1/2 NL pros on this site that such an example would apply to.
I don't know about 1/2 NL, but in a limit game..

If you get in 30 hands/hr, ~3 pots/hr, maybe $2.50 in tips if you don't tip on the small pots.

Full time is 2000 hours, 2000 * $2.50/hr = $5000.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:45 PM   #2533
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
Well, I am waiting the detailed mathematical response from the you-must-tip-or-else crowd how Bill not tipping Mike on the 3 pots he pushes him each day will make a significant difference to Mike. Enough to justify Mike treating/talking about Bill like most would a pedophile (in fact, Mike would kiss up to a pedophile if the pedophile was a good tipper -- to be fair, a lot of players would kiss up to a pedophile if he were a major fish).
It really wouldn't make a huge difference. Very few people anywhere in this thread are taking it to the lengths that you are describing here with the Mike example, almost no dealers here are going berserk over players stating that they don't tip. The few that may have done so are fools and are overdoing it.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #2534
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I don't know about 1/2 NL, but in a limit game..

If you get in 30 hands/hr, ~3 pots/hr, maybe $2.50 in tips if you don't tip on the small pots.

Full time is 2000 hours, 2000 * $2.50/hr = $5000.
How many people honestly play live Limit full time for a living as their sole means of income, but at stakes low enough where $5000 makes an enormous difference?
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #2535
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I did, for 6 years.

How much money does someone have to make before $5000 isn't a big differencve?
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:57 PM   #2536
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I don't think anyone disagrees that the numbers do add up. As far as self entitlement on dealers part its what we were told your salary is tips that's how your paid. I know everyone dosnt tip that's there decision. To defend the way I get paid is a tough position against the way you loose money. I read this thread for insight on the others side and I've learned how players view the topic. Maybe casinos should step up to the plate and pay there employees until then I have to defend tipping so I can make a living. As a player you also can make a stand by only tipping the dealers that you feel deserve it. If none deserve it maybe you should get in the box maybe what we do won't be so easy. I have seen that.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:14 AM   #2537
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I did, for 6 years.

How much money does someone have to make before $5000 isn't a big differencve?
That's up to them to determine. It varies by individual. Obviously if someone were making $28k it'd be huge and if they were making $650k it'd be nothing, but there's a huge middle ground open to interpretation. Most pros that are way up there in stakes consider it the cost of doing business that would exist anyway in the form of increased rake if there were no tips.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #2538
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
That's up to them to determine. It varies by individual. Obviously if someone were making $28k it'd be huge and if they were making $650k it'd be nothing, but there's a huge middle ground open to interpretation. Most pros that are way up there in stakes consider it the cost of doing business that would exist anyway in the form of increased rake if there were no tips.
I play mixed limit games for a living and don't consider it the cost of doing business that would exist anyway. Not sure which pros you've been talking to, but none that I know consider it as such either.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:40 AM   #2539
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I play mixed limit games for a living and don't consider it the cost of doing business that would exist anyway. Not sure which pros you've been talking to, but none that I know consider it as such either.
Of course it would exist anyway. If everyone decided to stop tipping, wages would increase, since dealers wouldn't work for $4.25 or whatever hourly. These wages would come in the form of increased rake. You'd be paying it anyway.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #2540
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Of course it would exist anyway. If everyone decided to stop tipping, wages would increase, since dealers wouldn't work for $4.25 or whatever hourly. These wages would come in the form of increased rake. You'd be paying it anyway.
Sigh...

I didn't say rake wouldn't go up if tips weren't allowed; I said no pros consider $5K in tips the cost of doing business. Tips are voluntary.

I would prefer if the custom of tipping was done away with altogether, in every service field. Yes, I realize the price of food and poker will go up. I don't care - the customer shouldn't be made to feel responsible for compensating their employees. They should only be thinking about eating or playing or whatever, not what an appropriate tip is, and neither should the employee have to worry about that either.
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:15 PM   #2541
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

z4reio and bolt2112 have earned a week off from posting in this thread. If they're seen posting in this thread again before Monday, August 5th, they'll receive a one-week tempban.

Comments regarding this ruling are welcome via PM or in the Moderation Discussion Thread.

Last edited by Rapini; 07-29-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 07-29-2012, 02:58 PM   #2542
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Maybe they should have cooled off hammering each other for a bit, but overall, didn't bother me at all. This is obviously a thread where things are always going to get a little hot.

Quote:
Sigh...

I didn't say rake wouldn't go up if tips weren't allowed; I said no pros consider $5K in tips the cost of doing business. Tips are voluntary.

I would prefer if the custom of tipping was done away with altogether, in every service field. Yes, I realize the price of food and poker will go up.
You're contradicting yourself. The fact that people either tip or they pay anyway in the form of increased rake is the exact definition of the cost of doing business. You're paying a third party a piece for your presence at the table one way or the other.
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:14 PM   #2543
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
Maybe they should have cooled off hammering each other for a bit, but overall, didn't bother me at all. This is obviously a thread where things are always going to get a little hot.



You're contradicting yourself. The fact that people either tip or they pay anyway in the form of increased rake is the exact definition of the cost of doing business. You're paying a third party a piece for your presence at the table one way or the other.
yes but not really..

this is only true if everyone stops tipping altogether, but the correct strategy for a pro is to never tip and encourage others to
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:14 PM   #2544
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Of course it would exist anyway. If everyone decided to stop tipping, wages would increase, since dealers wouldn't work for $4.25 or whatever hourly. These wages would come in the form of increased rake. You'd be paying it anyway.
This is how I look at it. I usually end up tipping what I think is my fair share of a generous wage (even though I feel I could not tip at all and they'd still get there). The problem is tipping like that still gets you called cheap in the games I play plus it costs you the money (a significant amount when you're getting called cheap anyway).

The games I tip to convention are the games you can get booted from if you don't or the ones where I'm afraid of getting cheated at some point. That's really what higher stakes tipping is imo. It's a bribe to not get cheated at some point. Makes me feel gross.

That said, higher stakes games do deserve higher tips. The games are actually a service at that level. Casinos should get rid of their lower stakes games imo. They're robbing those folks and offering them next to nothing. You don't need a casino to play poker for a couple hundred bucks and can do it much better without them.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #2545
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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The games I tip to convention are the games you can get booted from if you don't or the ones where I'm afraid of getting cheated at some point. That's really what higher stakes tipping is imo. It's a bribe to not get cheated at some point. Makes me feel gross.
Underground game? If they can cheat, tipping won't stop them.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:37 PM   #2546
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Underground game? If they can cheat, tipping won't stop them.
Think more about places where the people running the game can/will/do put you in spots where you get the short end of the stick.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:41 PM   #2547
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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That said, higher stakes games do deserve higher tips. The games are actually a service at that level. Casinos should get rid of their lower stakes games imo. They're robbing those folks and offering them next to nothing. You don't need a casino to play poker for a couple hundred bucks and can do it much better without them.
This is horrible. Why would you want to remove an avenue for the terrible, spewy, recreational donk player to get into the game? Casinos couldn't operate a poker room if they eliminated low stakes cash games and small tournaments.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:11 PM   #2548
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Also from speaking to dealer, players in smaller games tip way more thna the bigger stakes.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #2549
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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That said, higher stakes games do deserve higher tips.
Funny how it works out just the opposite.
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Also from speaking to dealer, players in smaller games tip way more than the bigger stakes.
True with a few exceptions.
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Old 07-29-2012, 11:00 PM   #2550
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I would much rather deal a 3/6 or a 4/8 limit game than a 1/2-2/5 no limit game.
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