Ignore him. If other players want to tip let them. It's their money.

But if the floor man or dealer says something personal when I do not leave a tip, then we are going to have a little discussion.

You just told us that $5 of that goes to the dealers, so what's this guy talking about? IMO, the floor man doesn't deserve a response. Just ignore him.

I tip exactly $0 extra.

I have a new system also:

I've completely stopped tipping bad/incompetent dealers all together; don't care how big the pot is either. And, I'm primarily a limit player so hitting a BBJ and then wondering how much to tip these bad dealers isn't going to happen anyway, so.

Now, there are also a handful of dealers(maybe 7 or 8) that I just don't like, but, they are good dealers. These dealers are excluded off of my no tip list because they're still getting out a lot of hands and make very few mistakes.

My tipping criteria:

$1 on all pots in which I *profit* two big bets or more on. If it's less than that, no tip, whether you're competent, good looking, pleasant, whatever.

I never tip more than $1 nor do I stiff a dealer that I normally tip due to me having a losing session. Not saying your way is wrong but I've found that if I keep to my criteria at all times, it also prevents me from overtipping, too. I used to tip $4 and $5 just because I was having a great session or cause the pot was huge; I don't do that anymore. I can't. I play way too often to just give my money away like that and for no reason. I mean, I don't attribute ANY credit or blame towards the dealer for my good sessions or my bad ones.

I actually share many of the sentiments in dealers' complaints of players. I do not listen to music, read, eat, or pick my nose when I play so I do not subject myself to distractions. I don't complain about any bad luck as if it's the dealer's fault or put any unwarranted blame on dealers. I do not need reminders to post my blinds or when it's my turn to act. When other players haven't posted their blinds, if I'm UTG, I do not stop and wait for the BB to post before I act as I know enough that I can fold immediately upon receiving my hand before the BB realizes it is his BB and posts as the order of action remains the same. Same when I'm next to act after a player clearly verbalizes his action. If he says "call, bet X or raise X", I will act on my hand immediately and not stop and wait as he lollygags to put his chips in. If every player were like me in a row, the next four players to act who are going to fold, would have folded already and we'd have proceeded to the next street, yet since I am not everyone, the action is still on the player (who will later simply fold) watching the player to his right reach back for his chips after making the obvious declaration to call. I also don't act out of turn. While the players behind me are mucking their hands and the dealer is telling them "hey, hey, don't act out of turn", I'm still holding my cards aware that the player who's turn it is has not acted yet. Practically all of my action is immediate, though any rare but necessary tank time would be understood by any reasonable dealer and max might have been 30 seconds all year. I don't interfere with the dealer doing their jobs, but I will speak up and assist when necessary. If there's rumbling from other players on where the button should be, and the dealer looks confused and is clearly unsure, I will confirm that the button is now on seat X. If the dealer misses the call in the corner and proceeds to burn, I will say "WAIT!" and prevent him from turning. Etc, Etc...

Of course I'm not 100% and in the course of a year I will glance away and get a very rare "Lester it's your turn" assist. But with me, the dealer to player assist: player to dealer assist ratio is pretty close to 1:1 and that's way out of proportion of in terms of service utilization, not to mention the weight of the assists.

In terms of hands dealt, though I might tip less compared to other players, my pace of play would contribute to more tip opportunities for dealers. Just as other players might tip more, their pace of play contributes to less tip opportunities for dealers.

While there's plenty of erroneous assumptions ITT, you neglect to account for the assumption that ought to be more obvious. I am also a tight player. As such I do not win a lot of pots. This year I might have won 4-5 pots in a down maybe twice, three times tops. When I'm running good and like the dealer, I'd likely tip $3 over 4 pots in these scenarios.

I think I'm tipping the equivalent of tipping just a tad below 15% of my portion of a restaurant bill...

A group of 10 people dine together at a restaurant. Each person orders an entree, but there is wide disparity in the cost of the entrees. The total bill comes to $300. Though I'm 1/10 of the party, my order accounted for 1/20 of the bill. As a group they leave $350. Some people might just split it all evenly. As my way of thinking accounts for matters of principle, I think the bill should be split in proportion to each persons' contributed orders . I'll contribute maybe $17 to the bill here.

Let's say 20% is the "full amount" of "average" for a tip on a restaurant bill. Let's equate that to a dollar per pot won in the poker world (it's really all that dealers ask and I think you'd find that most dealers' views of that number is in-line with the acceptance of the service person's view of tipping 20%.) So you don't tip when you're down, you're down to tipping 12-15 % already because you can't be having a winning session every time, or you will at least be down at some point before a session becomes a winning session. Now you have dealers you don't tip because they're poor dealers. Let's say 20% of the dealers fall into your definition of poor and thus untippable. Now you're down to 10-12% on a restaurant bill. After considering all those criteria, you only tip every 2 to 3 pots that you win. Now you're down to 3-5%. I think remmy is closer to the actual analogy than you think he is.

Let's assume everything you say in this post is true and you are the fastest poker playing in the US. Let's even assume every time you speak up and assist, it is really helping the dealer. How many extra hands per hour are being played at your tables because you are there? Obviously we don't know this exact answer, but I'd imagine the answer would be an incredibly tiny number. Certainly nowhere near enough to make up for the fact that someone at the table is tipping 83 cents an hour.

Let's assume that out of every 9 players, I am the fastest or perhaps better stated as efficiency impacting. Let's assume an average of 30 hands dealt per hour. As I am 1/9, I have an impact of .11 or 11% and 11% of 30 is 3.3 so an extra 3.3 hands dealt per hour or 3.3 extra tip opportunities. As I am still 11% of these 3.3, that's .36 and we'll account for the fact that I am a tighter player we'll just make that .3 so we'll knock that off the extra 3.3 and consider it 3. Still need to account for times were I am not the fastest, but we'll call that a wash against the times when I am 1/8 or 1/7 and my efficiency affect is greater. If $1 per hand is average, and $1 per hand * 3 extra hands comes to an extra $3 each hour. So $3 plus my $.83 and my 1/9 contribution has WAResque effect of $3.83 / hr. Something like that. How accurately this can be measured, who knows, there's lots of variables to account for, but there is an effect. Perhaps Bill James could come up with the best formula to measure tipping WAR. Dealer's may like the long ball, but the wiser dealer's recognize that OBP, pitching, and defense also contribute to a team's wins.

It truly amazes me the extent to which people will go ... math, crazy calculations and other formulas, percentages, etc ...

Just to save a lousy buck!

If u can't afford to throw the dealer one freakin' dollar, you shouldn't be playing poker!!!

And if a dealer cannot afford an occasional "under tipper", maybe he should find a different line of work.

In any decent sized room, any given dealer will see LK at most once a shift. So he is out $1-$2 for the shift because of LK. Big deal.

I mean, I can understand this knee-jerk and all, but if you understand the long-term implications of both the rake and $1 tips per pot won, then it certainly can be substantial. It's not "one freakin' dollar" when it becomes $7,000 a year for many people.

It does not amaze me that people will not save a buck simply because it could ignorantly be perceived as petty even though it makes perfect logical economic sense to do so. It also doesn't amaze me that people can think they are some authority on what others should or shouldn't do with their money. These people exist, nothing amazing about it.

The same kind of people who proclaim that a tip is "just one freakin' dollar" will:

1. Complain loudly when the rake goes from $4 to $5.
2. Complain about the $1 BBJ drop
3. Complain about the lack of $3/hr comps.

It is a generalization, but those who find fault with others for saving a buck, really recognize the value in it, but are too much of sissies to do it themselves and risk facing any shame. So they try to do the shaming and put down those who do as a means of compensating for their own shortcomings.

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that you really are a tight, fast, excellent player, and you help the game along immensely just by being at the table and assisting the dealer.

How exactly does that help the dealer when you've won 2 pots (one mid-sized pot, and one very large pot) during his down...but you don't tip for his efforts because you're still stuck for your session? If I'm to understand you correctly, you won't tip on the first pot won, and you won't tip if you're currently stuck. So, if you're pretty tight (as you claim to be), these 2 (somewhat substantial) wins mean nothing to you in terms of tipping. Therefore, they mean nothing to the dealer in terms of income.

If I had to choose between a player like yourself---one who speeds the game along but rarely tips---and another player who takes their sweet time, makes a few mistakes along the way, but tips an average amount on every hand won, I would choose the tipping player each and every time. It doesn't matter how fast YOU play, what matters is how everyone as a whole at the table plays. And it matters that the dealer gets paid for their time. If John Jones slows the game down but pays for his time consumption via tips, he's better for the dealer than Fast Freddie who doesn't tip at all. DUCY?

I've read plenty of B&M posts where dealers vent complaints about all sorts of annoying things that players do. I'm pretty sure they see value in stress relief, otherwise where are these complaints coming from. Tipping aside, dealers can count on me to cooperate with the facets of making their job easier. There's value beyond the instant gratification of tips. Just can't always have your cake and eat it too.

I know it's the table as a whole that dictates the pace of the game. I respond the same way when dealers claim how fast they are. But just like some dealers get a few more hands in per hour than others, I as a player have a similar impact. Enough so that dealers get a few more tipping opportunities. I do see why you prefer John Jones, your focus is instant gratification. But some wise dealers might prefer Fast Freddy (not your version who never tips, but my version who tips ~1/3 the rate of average).


Merry Christmas and I hope Santa brings you all the perfect John Jones / Fast Freddie hybrids to tips your little hearts out so you can have you cake and eat it too for the holiday season.

There's no way any of them prefer a Fast Freddy who tips $.83/hr.

Given the choice of dealing to Lester, who will evidently tip me a buck every few hands, or to a typical player, who will tip me a buck or more on just about every pot won, this is a no-brainer. I guess I appreciate Lester's efforts to make my job a little easier, but running the game comes with the territory. It's what I do. Reminding the players when the action is on them and keeping the game going is one of the most basic things I do as a dealer, and I really don't give it much thought when a player gets distracted by a tv, their phone, or a conversation.

Maybe I'd rather have Lester over a drunk blowhard who excessively slows the game down and who berates me, but as far as typical players who add an occasional hiccup to the pace of the game it's just another day at the office. Please fill my seats with players who actively contribute to my paycheck.

Believe it or not, I totally understand all this math. However, I cannot believe that replacing an average player at the table with you (even still assuming you are the fastest player in the US) at it improves the efficiency of the game by 3 whole hands per hour or anything close to that.

Obviously, we'll never get the exact answer to this. Maybe we can start here. How many hands would you add to the game if you took absolutely zero time for your actions plus the dealers extra labor, just because you're there (dealing you cards, putting your bets in the middle) etc.

In other words, about how about how many extra hands per hour can be expected to be dealt to a 9 handed table vs a 10 handed table?

The extra hands delivered to a 9 handed table would equal, not how many you contribute, but how many a zero time taking player contributes.

I'm all for saving a buck. To show how cheap I am, just a hour ago, I told my wife not to get gas until she comes home, so we can pay for the tank with a credit card that gives us 5% cashback. (She forgot to bring that card to work, and her job is only 2 miles away.) This will probably save us a whopping 2-3 dollars.

However, I'm not for stealing money, even just a buck, from somebody that does a job for me. A poker dealer is doing a job for you. There is a generally accepted price for what that job is worth(a dollar or so for non microscopic pots), but unfortunately, the dealer can only 'bill us' on the honor system.

Taking advantage of the honor system, like you do is not saving money. The only difference between not tipping fairly and stealing is that when you don't tip fairly, your 'victim' has no legal recourse.

4. Don't play on a regular daily basis.
5. have another source of income(ie) they're not relying on poker in any way to earn a living or supplement their income.

This is really laughable if you think you're adding any monetary value to a dealer. In the rare case that you're in a seat instead of Mr. Tanks McGee, you might add one extra hand to a down. Because it amuses me, let's break down the time you actually save at a table:

Let's go with your numbers and say 15 hands per down for the average...

You fold instantly when it's your turn. Each hand that you don't play (80% of them). So you act an average of 1 second faster than someone else, so that's 12 seconds per down.

You act immediately when you're UTG where someone else MAY take 4 seconds to wait for the big blind to be reminded get their blind out (which doesn't happen every time, but let's be generous). Let's also be generous and say this happens twice in a particular down. You've now saved 8 second per down.

People don't tank as much as people think....they just remember the times when they do because it's super annoying. It's likely you are faster at making decisions than the average player, but when counting actual seconds at the table, people don't really take as long as you'd think. 15 seconds seems like an eternity when you're sitting there waiting for someone to act. So let's say out of the 3 hands you play per down, two of them involve you as far as action goes. Average 2 or 3 decisions per hand, saving 5 seconds per decision, and generously we'll give you 30 seconds here.


So you've saved us 50 seconds. That's less than 1 hand per hour on average. I may be underestimating the actual time you save, but it's a far cry from 3 entire hands, let me assure you.


Stop trying to justify your cheapness and just say "I like my money and you can't make me give it away". It's the justifications you're trying to come up with that bother people, not just the act of stiffing.

Eh, I'm very much pro-tipping, but stiffing is not the same as stealing, sorry.

This is ridiculous. If you're a dealer and think players are stealing from you when they don't tip, then you need to take it up with management because it's their business model.

Curious, do you tip better dealers more, or do you just blindly tip $1 per pot regardless of dealer skill and professionalism?