LoL, You now this is a small town the dealers and and "regulars" joke with each other all the time. But what was funny is 90% of the dealers complaining about their checks being short during the flood since the casinos were only paying their hourly wage and what they declared in tips about the only dealers getting full checks were the from the one casino that reports taxes on all their tips.

Are you suggesting that your own industry can't tell if a dealer is good or not and thus deserving of a raise; or are you just wondering if I'm qualified to be a supervisor of poker dealers?

This is fascinating, also irrelevant.

Your job isn't special. You can be paid like normal people, and the fabric of poker space-time wouldn't collapse upon itself.

It's ignorant to suggest that base+tips is the only model that you can possibly be paid under.

I do not know of any major casino in the US that poker dealers can't accept tips. It's my understanding that there are numerous B&M locations in the second tier (charity rooms, 'card rooms,' social clubs) and in the third tier ("underground" games) where there exist a number of non-standard dealer payment schemes. [And we both agree that there are numerous non-US locations where first-tier locations are paid either straight salary, or who pay to deal for tips, etc.] I'd try to harvest some more information, but it's not readily available.

Uh, what?

WHOA!

Stop right there. Why do you think that I'm trying to save myself money? Show me where I've ever said that I want change so that I can pay less? Why must every dealer in these threads suggest that anyone who doesn't like the current system - or even wants to DISCUSS things - is a cheapskate?

Now c'mon. You're not suggesting that people have been known to fib a little bit on their taxes as to how much their cash tips are? That's crazy.

Nice deflection, if you have no answer, change the subject.

I'm sure all the casino employees got together weekly to laugh about how funny getting paid a fraction of what they normally make through no fault of their own. Must have been a hoot.

Can anyone confirm that the Tunica Casinos paid the dealers what they normally declared and not just hourly, sounds extremely generous.

I am taxed at 100%, I get just hourly on paid time off.

Neither. I was just wondering what you consider a good dealer? If the pay system were changed, what would a dealer have to do to prove worthy of a raise?

That's the problem. Our job is not special at all. We are paid the minimum allowed by law. We are just bodies and numbers. That's it. They're not going to pay us more unless it comes from the players. The payroll budget would have to be drastically reconfigured in order to pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars more per year. We COULD be paid like "normal people." But, as a I keep saying, this money has to come from somewhere.

A full time dealer is paid roughly $10,712 (5 days a week, no call offs, no sick days, etc) per year by the casino. Let's say a room has 80 dealers. $856,960 a year is paid to dealers. Paying us 60k a year bumps that to $4,800,000 per year. Now, how do you suppose the casino would come up with an extra $4 million?

Then you'd have the hundreds of table games dealers to consider. They also work on tips. If you're going to pay them a higher annual salary too (which they would demand out of fairness), now the casino must generate an additional $20,000,000 (based on 300 table games dealers covering 3 shifts). And that's for a smaller casino.


No, it's logical. There's a reason why it's done this way. But hey, who knows, maybe you know better.

My first question was just an honest question, I had not thought about the charity rooms, good point. Underground and backroom games, a different tier as you refer to them.

I mentioned the child labor because comparing US casinos with Europe and Australia is like apples and oranges.

We all know that other countries have different customs, and of course I would love to be the dealer in "Casino Royale" where Bond tips him $500K...sigh, Hollywood. The dealer rolled the deck way too much and mixing the cards up, terrible...but he never got relieved either.

On the last point, okay, sorry, you never mentioned it but plenty of others have and I need to stay hell out of this thread.

Peace?

What I think a good dealer is qualifies as "only interesting," in that I don't know the subtle differences between shades of good. For me, as a customer, I want someone who's paying attention to the game and drives it along (action is here, bet is x), knows when to talk and when to shut up, and isn't regularly making mistakes.

I don't care about issues that your manager might. I don't care how often you call in sick, how willing to work overtime you are, how often your table calls for a floor person over the average, or what your actual hands dealt per down is. I'm not competent enough to tell if you're pitching cards too high or rolling the deck or gesturing with an open palm or protecting the muck or raking the right way. I don't know if you're using the casino prescribed method for making change or selling buy-ins. I don't know if you're matching stacks or leaving bets in front of players or pulling them in before or after the turn card comes. I know these things exist, but it'd be like asking me to coach 3rd base in the majors.

Since I don't know enough in that second category, I wouldn't be the best arbiter of when you deserved a raise now. ...which is ironic, since I currently pay your salary.
You know that plenty of poker dealers don't work on base+tips, right? It's just ignorant for you to keep ignoring this while chanting "we're doing it the best way!"

We're good, of course.

People think I'm opposed to dealers making a fair wage. I'm not. They should get whatever the market can bear.

I just dislike the assumption that what we do now, here, is the only way it can be done. It's like the monkey story (again).

This is why I asked. Players notice personal traits, but probably not much of the mechanics. The casino notices what you're doing right or wrong (mainly what you're doing wrong... a player doesn't normally make it a point to tell a shift manager that dealer x didn't flip over any cards, or burn and turn too soon). Merely doing something "right" probably wouldn't get you a raise in most places.

Nice fold.

This is going to get really childish... you're the one who looks ignorant trying to promote this idea that doesn't work. You can't take a system that works, and very few have any serious issue with, and change it to something that's going to cause a multi-million swing into the red for a company. You should really try to learn a little more about how businesses are run before you suggest changes that should be made.

Again with the willful ignorance....

Poker dealers all over the world are under different pay models than base+tips, and yet they still manage to have poker dealers in successful casinos.

We have plenty of evidence of other models working.

The dealers weren't laughing but some players were laughing while telling them they shouldn't cheat on their taxes. I wasn't laughing since several owe me money and it affected their car payments to me. The Horseshoe, Harrahs, Goldstrike, Roadhouse,The Fitz, Hollywood and Sam's Town paid them their hourly wage plus declared taxes. The Hollywood is the only casino that forces the dealers to declare all taxes. At the Hollywood the tip box is unlocked and counted by the cage personnel, at all others the tip box is unlocked and opened by the dealers and they declare whatever they want to. Resorts and Bally's made dealers take PTO time or they weren't paid.

Confirmation: TUNICA, Miss., May 6, 2011 – Caesars Entertainment will extend pay to employees who are unable to work during the temporary closure of Harrah’s, Horseshoe, and Tunica Roadhouse casinos due to the Mississippi River flood stage through the month of May. If casino operations are unable to open after May 31 Caesars will evaluate an extension to employee compensation at that time.
“Our employees are the very best and they certainly deserve the best. We are proud to demonstrate our commitment to them by continuing to provide full pay with benefits including tokes during this unprecedented and unfortunate time,” said R. Scott Barber, Regional President, Caesars Mid-South.
Caesars employees will be able to receive updates concerning their jobs and the eventual reopening of the casinos via the phone number 1-888-488-OPEN (6736) and through email alerts.

In Tunica, Miss., all nine casinos in the market roughly 40 miles south of Memphis, Tenn., closed last week. Tunica County on Tuesday said the casinos are to be closed for at least three to six weeks.

Tunica gaming market is valued at about $10 million a month, but the closures also harm non-gaming revenues from roughly 6,000 hotel rooms and restaurants.

"It just has a major impact when you count on gaming," Larry Gregory, executive director of the Mississippi Gaming Commission, said last week at the Southern Gaming Summit in Biloxi, Miss.

Boyd Gaming Corp., which operates Sam's Town Tunica, is offering to move hotel guests with reservations through May 27 to other company properties in the South. Boyd spokesman David Strow said Friday the company is guaranteeing nearly 900 workers pay through May. They did include tips

GOLD STRIKE CASINO RESORT CLOSURE STATEMENT
The comfort and safety of our guests is of the utmost importance to us. At this time, the entire Mid South region
is experiencing hazardous weather conditions stemming from the torrential rains in the Midwest and a dramatic rise in the Mississippi river. As such and in cooperation with the
Mississippi Gaming Commission and local and state emergency departments, Gold Strike Casino Resort will be temporarily closing the property on Monday, May 2, 2011 at 2:00 pm.

This is an ever-changing and hard to predict situation,
however, based on current information we are hopeful this
short-term closure turns out to be precautionary only.

As is our company’s long-standing practice of supporting
our employees in times of emergency and natural disaster,
during this time, all Gold Strike employees will receive
their normal pay and benefits, including tokes. We would
re-evaluate the situation only if the property sustains
significant damage and must be closed for a longer period of
time.Gold Strike employees can receive updates about the closure
and reopening of the casino resort at 866.368.7399, gold
strike.com or via text alerts.
I want to thank our incredible staff for their efforts as
our property and community prepares for this challenge.

George P. Corchis, Jr.
President and Chief Operating Officer
MGM Resorts International Regional Operations
Dealer-guy maybe your employer does not treat employees as well as MGM, Boyd, The Fitz and Ceasars.

Tipping $1 for every pot I win would drastically cut down my winnrate. My hourly at $1/2 is about $9/hour. Tipping for every little pot I win would probably reduce my winrate by half, if not more.

Do I look bad by only tipping $1 or $2 for every pot I win that's over $100? Or is this acceptable?

Tip or don't tip, it's your choice. But no person should tell another person whether or not to tip or how much.

make your own decision and keep it to yourself.

Wouldn't I get weird looks from the other players if I never tip? Don't almost all players tip? I understand that tipping once in a while isn't going to hurt my winrate, and that the dealers rely on tips to make a decent living. But at the same time, tipping $1 for literally EVERY hand that sees a flop that I win would mean my entire hourly winrate would go to tips. And in doing that, and if the whole table does it, don't the dealers make like $24/hour from tips alone? Factor in their base pay ($5-$10/hour), and you're looking at at least $29/hour. That's far more than enough, so why do I need to tip for every single hand?

Basically, what I'm asking is, will I get looks from the dealer and other players if I ONLY tip for the big pots I win, over $100?

Personally, I HOPE players give you a look and you feel compelled to tip more/more often if I'm dealing at your table. It's more money for me, so why wouldn't I?

If you're only winning enough that you can afford to tip when you win $100 or more, then do whatever you think is right.

Just wondering though, if someone did call you out on it, would you start tipping on smaller pots? Or do you just want someone to tell you that we make enough, so go ahead and stiff us on most pots?

Hey buddy, I'm 23 and my previous job that I had, for ~2 years, paid $9.25/hour. It was a tough job, packing radios, and I got no tips. Dealing at poker isn't that much tougher than my old job, yet dealers make more than $25/hour if they are tipped every hand.

So basically what I'm getting at is I know it's wrong to never tip, because if all players did that dealers would not be compensated fairly. But tipping a buck for every flop that sees a flop means dealers make far more than what they should (in my opinion).

Anyway, can I get some opinions from people who aren't dealers?

It's sad somebody comes on the forum and looks for sympathy or whatever cuz they don't wanna tip.....if u don't want to tip stay home and play with your friends

If I'm broke and have no money I'm not going out to eat...or if I don't have enough for a tip I'm not going out to eat

The poster you insulted never said he didn't want to tip. He does feel a $1 for every flop is too much. You don't. He stated his reasons. You then made demands and insulted him.

If you do not have enough money to tip, you will not go out to eat. Fine. But you do not get decide how much others should tip. If some feels $1 a flop is too much, that is their business and their money. Feel free to tip extra to make up the difference.

DHAL is either a poser or has been a dealer for about 3 weeks. He does not represent the true professional dealers who make worthy contributions to this forum. This PSA brought to you by dealers who truly care.

Small addition: or he was a dealer for about three weeks.

I was about to offer a mea culpa and praise the casinos for their generosity as detailed above until I looked closer. Why no links? Some of he wording seemed "off".

In fact, there are a couple of problems with the "quotes" above BigTex, you appear to have added some words to a couple of them. You apparently falsified your evidence.

I found the original articles. I wondered why you did not include links to them, now I know.

What you claim they said:

What they really said:

The bold words (my emphasis) were added to this statement. They did not appear in the original article.

Here is the link to that article:

http://tunicams.yuku.com/topic/7486

*************************

What you claimed they said:


What they really said:

No mention of tips and they only said they would pay through May 15th. The date was cut off, the period left in place then the last four words "They did include tips" was added. I added the emphsis of the bold textt of the added words in the "wuote" above.

Here is the link to that article.

http://tunicams.yuku.com/topic/7486


**********************

The quote concerning the closure of the Gold Strike is accurately reported. That casino did pay it's dealers their salary "including tokes".

They are to be complimented for going way beyond what they were required or even expected to do.

So, 2 of of the three quotes used by BigTex21 were falified from all apprearances.

if I'm wrong BigTex, please prove me wrong by giving the links of articles dated early May as the quotes you used above. Links to the articles with the same wording as you quoted. Do that and I will apologize.

Until then, nothing else you post will have much credibility. Not in my eyes anyway.

And I get treated just fine by my employeer, better than you treat the dealers you laugh at when they are the victims of a natural disaster.

DHAL isn't alone in his opinion that dealers only do their best work for good tippers. His opinion is getting less and less renegade.

At my local club, it is frowned upon if you don't tip the final table dealer after a tournament. They expect ~10% though, which soon adds up. If I pay £30+5 for a tournament and win £400, why should I tip £40 for them doing their job? I would have no problem tipping £10-20 but I feel like i'm being taken for a mug. The problem is, i'm friends with a lot of the dealers and if I started tipping <5%, i'd probably get a bad name down there, because the dealers talk to me about others who tip badly, but I have a profit to make?

Am I making too much out of this and I should just tip less?

First of all I didn't use "press releases" I scanned flyers that were at the County Tourism center and also given out to Hotel guests and employees. If you want to call Lisa Crompton poker room manager at the Horseshoe 662-357-5608 direct number to poker room and she will verifly that all Ceasar employees were paid hourly wage plus tokes. Also Samstown did not mention it on their flyer I added that but call Linda poker room manager at Samstown 662-363-0711 and she will verify that Sams matched the Ceasars and the Strike in paying their employees or call both casinos HR depts and htye will also verify. What is so unusal for a casino paying hourly wage and declared tokes. When Biloxi was hit a couple of years ago MGM, Ceasars and others did the same for a period of time not thre total down time though and also put employees up in hotels here in Tunica. And I stated that I didn't laugh at the employees since several owe me money for car payments.