3 way all in bomb pot.

Players A & B chop main pot.

Players A & C chop side pot.

Everyone tables hands, new dealer incorrectly *announces winners. (Announces player A gets full side pot)

Player C mucks, dealers places those cards into card stub.

Dealer distributes side pot to player A. Approx 90 sec pass and while dealer is distributing main pot, player C says "hey I should have chopped side pot, I had XX for cards"

Floor rules in favor of player C, pulls cards out of deck stub.

Correct?

Yes, as long as Player C 'fully' tabled their hand for all to see and no one is in disagreement as to what Player C was holding, then this is a pretty standard ruling. In rooms with overhead cameras I've seen them 'go to the tape' for verification, but if no one is objecting this is just a misread by Dealer/table and Player C get it's share of the side pot.

If Player C had not tabled their hand AND the cards were still 'fully' identifiable, then in most rooms they could be retrieved and tabled for the chop.

'In most rooms' once the pots are pushed and a shuffle or the button on the auto-shuffler is pushed then the hand is over and Player C loses their claim at that time. GL

Yes. If the hand was tabled properly, it is live at showdown. if necesary, the cameras can confirm what the hand was

You can't un-table a hand. Once it was properly tabled the hand is eligible to win at showdown no matter if the cards get mucked later on or a dog jumps on the table to eat them.

If A & C chop the side and A & B chop the main then in reality A, B & C all chop the main.

Once tabled a hand cannot be killed. Cards speak once properly tabled.

Tech player can’t muck. He can fold, discard, abandon his cards but (minor pedant) a muck is done by the dealer. Full disclosure, I will use the term muck like OP but it is still not perfectly correct.

Also, the dealer should be mucking into the muck not the stub. If correctly mucked, the cards are mixed into the muck such that they cannot be clearly identified so floor should not be able to just pull out the cards from the stub. Note, even if correctly mucked and not identifiable, the fact that the hand was properly tabled means even a mucked hand is still live.

You may want to pull out a watch and time just how long 90 seconds is in a poker hand. That is a LONG time to take chopping a pot even three ways. , hand is live. Honestly if ever item about the dealer is 100% accurate as posted, this dealer needs more training.

Not sure if op was A or B, but whether or not he is, op should be striving to see the C gets his proper chips. It is EVERY player responsibility to point out errors so they can be corrected.

TLDR as posted yes ruling was correct as hand is live.

Is the new hand, claim over correct in this instance (if that had happened)?

This isn’t a ruling issue or similar. It would be a clear error correction. I have heard of such error corrections happening after the next hand has begun. And I am not referring to impounded pots. I am talking about chips incorrectly awarded and subsequently getting pulled from a player stack to get th3m to the correct, different player

I had the same thought initially. But maybe it was a double-board bomb pot, or some other split-pot game in which the choppers don't necessarily have the same hand.

Probably depends on house rules. I am under the impression that most rooms won't correct errors once the next hand has started.

I would be extremely hesitant if approached by a floor to hand chips to another player for something that has happened in a previous hand. To me that's like overturning an incomplete pass into an interception 5 plays later.

In these discussions, it is useful to have a definition of terms, as they get frequently misused(I will also include some terms that were not mentioned in this scenerio, but come up in these discussions)

tabled-a hand is tabled when it is placed, face up, with the cards backs on the felt. While the strictest rules say that the cards muct be fully backs on the felt and outside the players hand, most dealers or floors will consider a hand tabled as long as most of the cards backs are on the felt (allowing the player to protect their hand by continuing to hold onto the bottom or corner of the cards). The cards must be fully visible.

mucked-A hand is mucked when it is mixed, unidentifiable, with the muck. Usually, only a dealer can muck a hand (although, in certain seats, it is possible for the player to reach the muck and mix his hand into it. This is discouraged). Even if the cards touch the muck, as long as they are identifiable, they are not automatically considered dead. The act of a player discarding his hand to the middle of the table is NOT mucking, though it is often described that way

Discarding\abandoning your hand-At showdown, if you choose to not show your hand, you may discard or abandon it by throwing the cards forward, face down. This indicates that you do not wish to make claim on the pot by showing your hand. Note two things: 1)Your hand is not killed by the act of discarding or abandoning. If you discard your hand forward, and then suddenly see a backdoor straight, as long as your hand is identifiable, you can table your hand. This happens a lot, and opposing players always scream 'He folded'. They are wrong. More on that later. 2)Discarded hands at showdown can be requested to be shown by any player who was involved in the hand (definitions of what 'involved in the hand' vary between 'dealt into the hand' to 'was involved at showdown'). They may invoke I Want To See That Hand (IWTSTH) and the dealer will table the hand. Note: if the player who has the winning hand invokes IWTSTH, the tabled hand is live. If another player invokes IWTSTH, the hand is not live.

Folding-Folding is the act of, when faced with action, declining to match or raise the action, and forfeiting any claim on the pot. A folded hand is instantly considered dead. Note that you may only fold when facing action. At showdown, when action is complete, a player may not fold. Even if they discard their hand, and verbally declare that the fold, their hand is not considered dead if it identifiable. This is the most common scenario, where a player thinks they have lost, discard their hand, then realize they made a backdoor draw, and then reach out and table their hand. The other player will be steadfast in their belief that since the player folded, or since the cards grazed the muck, that the hand is dead. This is not usually the case. The exception to this rule is that if a player acts in any way to induce the other player to discard their hand(and have it subsequently mucked) duplicitously, their hand is usually ruled dead. For example, I bet, you call, and I say 'You got me, I was bluffing', and then pump fake my cards towards the middle, but don't let go of them. The other player, already mentally moving to the next hand, discards his hand and the dealer mucks. I then table my hand and try to claim the pot as having the best, live hand. Many rooms will rule my hand dead.

The key's here are
1. A properly tabled hand cannot be subsequently killed
2. A discarded or abandoned hand is not dead if it is identifiable
3. Usually, only a dealer can muck a hand
4. You can only fold when facing action

"Tabled hand is mucked"

A tabled hand can't be mucked. Once it's tabled, it's tabled and the cards have already spoken.

So, this scenerio does bring up a question-how long must the cards be at rest for them to be considered tabled. We all agree that if you put your cards face up, backs on the felt, and leave them there, they are tabled and live. We all agree that if you keep them in your hand, flash them face up, even tapping the back\top of the cards against the felt, then discard them face down, they are dead if the dealer mucks them

What about in this case. What happens if I flip my cards face up, backs on the felt, wait maybe two seconds, then flip them over and discard them, and they are subsequently mixed into the muck? Are they live?

By the rules, you would say, yes. But practically, saying that they are live and going to the cameras to verify them (if anyone contests their identity) would grind the game to a halt.

If the hand was tabled, it doesn't even need to be retrieved from the muck. "Live" seems like a misnomer here. Once the hand has been tabled, "live" and "dead" doesn't seem to be entering into the conversation. If there's no question about what the contents of his hand actually was, we don't even need to go to the tape or retrieve them or anything.

Two seconds is plenty of time. Hand is tabled. IMO even one second is plenty.

IMO as long as the 'owner' of the cards tables and releases them, even for an instant, they are properly tabled and hold their claim to any of the pot they deserve. Whereas Rule #1 probably applies, I would be hard pressed to give a Player who turned over and only pressed the upper portion of their holding into the felt .. and then turned them back over. I want 100% of the card on the felt with release (and obviously within view of the Dealer) in order to be read.

Yep .. the ABC thing caught me as well, but so many games are RIT .. and it could've been a split pot game where B had a better high/low than C did.

And yes, we could go Rule #1 again after the start of the next hand but I don't think you'd get very far in a casino (unless you're a Reg-whale) .. GL

Pushing the scenario to absurd, unrealistic levels as a though experiment, is there ever a time period of tabling cards top fast for the cards to be considered validly tabled? If I flip the cards over, backs down, move my hand off the cards a millimeter, then flip them back as fast as I can, and then discard them, are they still tabled?

And yes, I know this is unrealistic and ridiculous and would never happen.

TDA is nonspecific and subjective, but still probably the correct way to phrase it:

There is not time limit, as long as the player fully tables them meaning puts them on the table face up by themselves. He can't show his cards to everyone with the back of his hand resting on the table then mucks, that would be a muck. It's like the opposite of the NFL, you have to give up possession of your cards for them to be tabled.

Now, on the other hand, I was at the table in a big pot where a guy was so happy he won that he stood up and slammed his cards on the table. One card stayed tabled and the other one bounced off onto the floor and it was ruled dead as a door nail.

I always turn over my cards and keep my fingers on them - Protect Your Hand! - have I given up possession?

Yea that's fine, once they're tabled and ppl see it, no one can un-table them, even the dealer so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

IMO ruling that card dead and killing the hand was a bad ruling. I have seen this very thing happen more than once. I don’t recall the hand being killed. I understand the risk of a card getting swapped but that can be addressed if concern is high.

So, I don't have to "give up possession. Got it.

As we've seen in many, many cases, you don't want to put yourself in a position where someone else is going to have a say in 'your' result.

1) I've seen more than once where a card that went off the table killed a hand (3 locations). Rooms with cameras pawn it off as interfering with their ability to protect the integrity of the game .. and certainly a BBJ payout. With auto-shufflers the deck is certainly checked .. and for a BBJ they lay out all the cards face up anyway. (I always yell 'same dice' when it happens)

2) I've also been the victim of a Floor who ruled that my hand was dead when a card bounced off the table/chips and came to rest FACE UP on the stub/cut card .. deeming it not properly tabled and scoffing at the fact that it was fully identifiable. He later said all was good since I came out ahead in my session that day. Really, that's how you feel good about a ruling?

3) Fine line between maintaining possession and the Dealer wanting to 'bring in' the holding so the table/they can confirm the read. Bad Lighting, bad eyesight and larger tables are all contributing factors these days. GL