In your example, it's a violation of one player to a hand and that should obviously not be tolerated. No one is suggesting that railbirds should be doing anything that breaks the rules.

Within the rules, however, especially when the topic is on any observer seeing a mistake being made, there is pretty much nothing a railbird can do to hurt a game by double checking or confirming something is correct. "Oh noes! We spent 4 second re-reading the board and saying 'no, he'd need a 9 on the board for a straight'"

I can see an instance where there is $950 in the pot and the dealer is pulling in everyone's $378 turn bets and calls and maybe one of the $378 is light by a white chip where maybe a railbird can just let it go. No one REALLY cares about the dollar but I wouldn't mind it pointed out. As for pointing out mistakes at showdown, I'd rather the occasional case where the railbird is wrong than have an error slip through, even if it was an honest error and not a situation where someone is knowingly benefiting from other people's mistakes.

No, it wasn't. Each player is responsible for protecting his own action, and is responsible for reporting mistakes they detect. they are not responsible for protecting other people's actions? Would you blame other players at the table for not catching the mistake?

Being responsible for something means that you are held accountable for it. When it comes to protecting your own action, this means that you are held accountable by forfeiting your right to a pot if you do not protect your action. How are you held accountable for not catching a mistake that affects someone else?

It's not about "blaming" others.

No one is blaming people that don't see the mistake. There is no way to prove that anyone knew even if they DID see the mistake and refused to speak up. It's not about them missing the mistake, but if someone DOES notice, it IS that person's responsibility to speak up.


The OP saw it and let it happen, so Didace's comment of "Yes, it was" in reply to you saying it wasn't the OP's responsibility is correct.

We disagree on the fact that this modification is slight.

And just so we're clear on your argument, you don't want me to be allowed to correct a pot from the rail because I might encourage a railbird who otherwise would not have violated OPTAH to violate OPTAH in the future.

I repeat SirRawrsALot's qustion: What is the down side?

There is such a thing as the Integrity of the Game.

Had OMC flashed his hand and folded face down, crying about his luck, you can rake the pot as it is yours, but once the hand is tabled the cards speak for themselves.

It is every player's responsibility to protect the integrity of the game once another player's hand has been tabled.

Do the right thing next time, it's more important than raking a pot that wasn't yours in the first place.

Note: Don't expect to profit monetarily by doing "The right thing", unfortunately we live in a world where honesty and integrity are rarely rewarded, yet liars, cheats, and thieves seem to continually profit from their scumbag tactics. Not hating on you, OP, just on my soapbox today.

I will give you that it is not a player's responsibility to catch the mistake, but once he is aware of the mistake it is his responsibility to speak up about it.

If you're railing a 21 game and a dealer pays a push do you correct the dealer? Does whether or not you're backcounting make a difference?

Seeing as how you have no heart, I'd say your statement holds no truth as you were awarded the pot.

You are probably correct -- which is a ****ty reflection on humanity.

A couple months ago a huge mouth breather in the PLO game tabled a KK2x against my AAxx not even realizing his 2 had made trips in about $200 pot. Even the dealer and other players didn't notice and his hand was mucked and pot was being shipped to me. I told the dealer to take another look and ship the pot to the correct person. Promptly went on a $1400 upswing in the game, and I don't even believe in karma!

Great questions! Any takers? How about, if you're not railing it but actually a participant at the table? Are you speaking up now or is taking $ from the casino somehow a different thing even when you know the $ doesn't belong to you, or to the customer in which the payout was pushed to.(?)

Where are you drawing the line.

As you have been shown, the normal rules state you and everyone on the game have an obligation to ensure the pot is awarded to the correct hand. If you choose to ignore this obligation, you can. The result is you cheated him out of a pot. Your choice.

Derail:

I once called someone's all in bet with a flush draw. He asked, "Do you have a flush draw?" I said yes and tabled my hand. Turn completed my flush and he stood up in disgust. The river paired the board and he said, "I flopped a set," mucked his hand and stormed off before I think he realized what happened. Me and the rest of the table sort of glanced around uncomfortably while the $1400 pot got shipped my way.

What to do in this situation? This was a home game and the guy is someone I saw often.

The dealer is a trustee; he pays the pot to the winner. It doesn't matter whether that person is a child molester.

Ask around, find that man, and pay that man his money.

If he never tabled it he's out of luck.

I hate how threads like this involving ethics are always filled with people talking about karma as some cosmic punishment to be the deterrent for poor behavior. How about doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing because that's what you would want everyone else to do in that situation?

I can agree with this,Reid.

This.

He says he flopped a set. That doesn't mean anything without a tabled hand.