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Old 04-08-2021, 09:36 AM   #1
checkraisdraw
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Situation at Orleans 8/16

Player just got felted. Dealer asks player if he wants to be dealt in. Player pulls out 500 in Wynn chips and says heís playing 500 behind. Dealer hesitates, and the player insists to deal him in. Dealer ends up dealing him in. I would have said something, but I didnít know it was Wynn chips he pulled out.

Action gets to the player, who calls the bb (8 dollars, this is an 8/16 game). He folds the flop to a bet. Then he walks off and we think he is trying to scam 8 dollars by walking away. We call the floor over and tell him what happened. Floor says he will take care of the 8 dollars.

Before that can happen, the guy comes back and sits down with 200. He says heís not going to pay because if he had won the pot, they wouldnít have paid him. Floor gets called over and he says that he will take care of the 8 dollars and gives the player a warning. The whole table is pissed, including me. I ask him why he insisted on being dealt in if he knew the rule. He refuses to answer and starts trying to say Iím being an ******* or whatever because Iím calling him out to his face.

The floor says he doesnít have to pay because the dealer was the one who made a mistake by dealing him in. The game ended up breaking because everyone was angry that he was allowed to play. I may have had something to do with that.

Do you think the casino handled this situation correctly? If not, what should have happened?
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:56 AM   #2
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

If he hit the flop he would have pulled the 200 cash out of his wallet (assuming that's what he used to buy the chips) or found someone to buy the Wynn chips and finish the hand so his explanation is out. I'm probably telling him to put up the 8 or be done for the day and letting a higher up decide whether he can come back.

I get a lot of crap for not dealing until players finish putting their money on the table but this is why. Often they will say 500 behind then realize they don't actually have 500, or try to put more on after action has started. Dealer shouldn't have dealt him in.

None of this surprises me based on my one horrifying experience playing 8-16 O8 at the Orleans several years ago. They let them get away with way too much.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:37 AM   #3
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

You can't make him pay the $8 but you can kick him out of the room if he refuses to pay. That's what I would have done if I was the floor.

Ultimately, blame falls on the dealer for pitching that player a hand. Based on the way you describe the situation, the dealer was fully aware that he's not supposed to deal the player in. That means he made a conscious decision to do so anyway. That should be addressed.

Dealer should have called for the floor once the player starts to argue with him.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:43 PM   #4
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

floor tried to keep the peace which was classy of them. why not go along with that instead of getting all pissy at what's likely a losing player?
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:02 PM   #5
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Lmao it's 8/16, all the players are bad. Why would I want to play with a POS angle shooter?
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:23 PM   #6
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

I cant believe the floor let the guy stay after that lame excuse that he wouldnt have gotten paid if he won, after he insisted he get dealt in. IMO he should have told him to leave for the day. I mean, what warning did he give the guy? "Dont ask to get dealt in a hand agan when you have no intention of paying if you lose"? Total bs.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:23 PM   #7
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

ill be there in three weeks, is this what i have t look forward to?
in the past the games have benn fairly friendly although one dude lectured me how i sucked for calling his raise on the button with 109ss
love the orleans
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:40 PM   #8
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

I would say for the most part the players were cool. I played two sessions there and that was the only bad behavior I saw from a player. Action was good.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:57 PM   #9
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

It's a limit thing, particularly omaha. That game seems to attract a certain type of person. If you're playing NL it's a decent room in my experience.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:22 PM   #10
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

I'm ok with him coming back with 200, since he didn't have any money technically prior, but they should at least take the 8 bucks out of it and pay the winner who got screwed. I agree the dealer screwed up by not waiting to confirm he had the money. And he's FOS yes they would have paid him if he won who's he kidding.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:45 PM   #11
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

If the guy is a regular, I could see floor covering for him - didn't the floor pay the $8 like they said they would?
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:16 PM   #12
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

You reminded me that the floor didn't even remember to pay out the 8 dollars...
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:24 PM   #13
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

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Originally Posted by Your Mom View Post
floor tried to keep the peace which was classy of them. why not go along with that instead of getting all pissy at what's likely a losing player?
It's 8/16 limit, with regular rake almost everyone is a losing player in that game.

Let's say kicking him out costs you $10 in EV, a number that's certainly far too high. I'd happily pay $10 to get a stealing POS removed from my game.

You're acting like we're talking about the only action player in a deep 5/10NL game who might drop another 5-10k if allowed to stay in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkraisdraw View Post
You reminded me that the floor didn't even remember to pay out the 8 dollars...
LOL
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Old 04-08-2021, 07:40 PM   #14
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Slightly weird situation:

I am sympathetic to dealer letting wynn chips play - most casinos are happy to convert. It does risk minor delay of game due to procedural hiccups.

It seems like major mistake dealer made was letting him play the chips behind, instead of force him to put at least some wynn chips into play, with the expectation that they would be forcible converted soom after.

For dealer to save himself some procedural hassle and trust a player to pay back 1-2 big blinds rather than slow down the game is also reasonable. This is very different from dealer allowing villain to play a big pot without putting chips in play, where the risk of freeroll is much more damaging. In the first instance, dealer can still pay 1-2 big blinds out of pocket.

Once player came back and refused to pay, its clear he was shooting an angle - floor would have been well within its right to eject the player if he didn't pay up, but the way it handled the situation was fine. Spared the dealer some embarassment and the other floor guy a pain-in-the-ass situation.

I would add that the type of player who pulls a stunt like this will quite often be good for the game action-wise, so floor decision to let villain off with warning and cover the blind may actually have been a great business decision. It certainly doesn't seem like the sort of thing that should break a game.

Last edited by monikrazy; 04-08-2021 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:33 PM   #15
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Mom View Post
why not go along with that instead of getting all pissy at what's likely a losing player?
Some people have integrity and don't sacrifice their principles for a few bucks.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:09 PM   #16
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

I guess thereís some information Iím leaving out like him arguing with dealers, hassling players for bluffing/calling, slowrolling, and worst of all trying to confuse the dealer as to the position of the button whenever he was in the bb. This was just the last straw. But yeah maybe I overreacted, I just canít stand scumbags and was playing bellow my normal limit so the money was pretty negligible for me.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:28 AM   #17
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

A bit of a divergent question, but I thought I heard somewhere years ago that the Vegas casinos had some sort of clearing process set up for when chips from one casino were used in play at another. But what I can't recall is if that only covers incidences when the chip is used by mistake and not caught at the table, or if they allow action on chips from other casinos. Does anyone know what the current situation is in that regard? The example I recall was talking about table games not poker. Just wondering what the current procedure is for other property chips playing.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:08 AM   #18
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

My thought here is why is it an issue at all that he has Wynn chips. My experience on the strip has been that chips from one casino is accepted at another. Ive never done it at the poker table but I have definitely jumped around casinos playing blackjack, craps, and roulette and what casino your chip came from has never been an issue.
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Old 04-09-2021, 10:38 AM   #19
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

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My thought here is why is it an issue at all that he has Wynn chips.
Apparently, casinos are not excited about larger denomination chips ($100+) from casinos owned by a different entity unless you're known to the casino. For $500, they probably want to at least identify you and run a Central Credit check.

But that's not even the point here. You can't just say "I'm playing XXX behind" without putting anything on the table (or handing it to a chip runner). If the player had handed over the $500 in Wynn chips to get them changed, I doubt anyone would have complained. What you certainly can't do is flash a couple chips or bills and say "$500 behind" before putting them back in your pocket.
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Old 04-09-2021, 11:11 AM   #20
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Verbal is binding.

Until it isn't, at this room.
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Old 04-09-2021, 07:28 PM   #21
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

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Originally Posted by e1cnr View Post
If the guy is a regular, I could see floor covering for him - didn't the floor pay the $8 like they said they would?
That is the problem with the Orleans poker room. He should have not been dealt in at all. Then it is all ok. It's what makes the room so bitter.
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Old 04-09-2021, 07:40 PM   #22
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Quote:
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My thought here is why is it an issue at all that he has Wynn chips.
The only one arguing that the chips didn’t play is the thief who introduced them.
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Old 04-09-2021, 10:09 PM   #23
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

The "official" rule is other casino chips are useless outside of the casino that owns them. It became the norm 10 or 15 years ago. Bellagio big chips still were like gold and respected everywhere, don't know about others. I haven't personally seen foreign casino chips accepted other than Bellagio chips in this century.
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Old 04-09-2021, 11:58 PM   #24
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

He did end up exchanging them at the main cage. Just not the full 500.
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:12 AM   #25
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Re: Situation at Orleans 8/16

Nobody's mad that he's not being forced to play 500?

Screw the $8 and the attitude .. why let him short stack with 11 BB? GL

PS .. As a Floor, this is my 'out' in getting him to leave for the day. By forcing him to put the whole $500 'back' on the table.
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