Of course it's faster, but I think it defeats the purpose of an ante, which, imo is dubious to begin with. Just go to no ante if you want it to be faster.
I have not played in a single ante tournament yet. Is the difference in speed noticeable?
But you probably have played in regular ante tournaments where the dealer had to remind 5 guys constantly to put in their ante, almost every hand because they were busy on their phones or had their back to the table to look at other tables or chat.
None of that happens with a single ante. Either BB posts both his blind and ante or the dealer would have to remind him of his blind anyway.
I must say the responses have been shockingly lacking of critical thinking,
very weak and disappointing.
Present day players carrying the water for the greedy casinos!
I must say the responses have been shockingly lacking of critical thinking,
very weak and disappointing.
Present day players carrying the water for the greedy casinos!
Alrighty, I guess it took us a minute to realize you’re just trolling.
I must say the responses have been shockingly lacking of critical thinking,
very weak and disappointing.
Present day players carrying the water for the greedy casinos!
No, it's just that no one has agreed with your premise that the single ante decreases the skill level of tournaments. Since you didn't actually state any reasons why you believe this, why don't you share your own critical analysis with us that led you to that conclusion?
Last edited by Had2Call; 11-03-2018 at 09:14 PM.
Reason: Oh that's right--you don't have any.
My personal opinion on single ante tournaments are predicated on the facts of my experience in single ante tournaments.
I play 4 tournaments a week.
The floor people and the dealers are constantly stating how much they dislike wasting dealers on tournaments, the dealers earn less per hour and managers lose dealers from the more profitable $7 drop per hand. Poker room budget is a stand on its own profit only.
Tournaments are a courtesy not a big profit maker.
The less time and dealers spent on tournaments the bigger the rooms profit line goes up.
You will notice I said $7 drop because $2 goes to high hand promotion, which they get to take 10% for administration purposes and another 10% for advertising costs.
This is getting tedious. I am done.
My personal opinion on single ante tournaments are predicated on the facts of my experience in single ante tournaments.
I play 4 tournaments a week.
The floor people and the dealers are constantly stating how much they dislike wasting dealers on tournaments, the dealers earn less per hour and managers lose dealers from the more profitable $7 drop per hand. Poker room budget is a stand on its own profit only.
Tournaments are a courtesy not a big profit maker.
The less time and dealers spent on tournaments the bigger the rooms profit line goes up.
You will notice I said $7 drop because $2 goes to high hand promotion, which they get to take 10% for administration purposes and another 10% for advertising costs.
This is getting tedious. I am done.
If you are correct about these facts then the room should not be spreading any tournaments.
My room runs some bb ante tournaments and I expect that eventually all of our tournaments will be ante. My room makes money on tournaments and almost always spreads as many cash games as demand calls for so the tournaments do not prevent us opening cash games.
Just out of curiosity where are you playing (if you don't want to name the casino can you name the area)
Why do you think a single ante tournament means less time for dealers?
I believe his argument is actually that the only change the card room would make would be one that finished the tournament earlier. Therefore if the change to bb ante it must be less costly on labor.
Of course it's faster, but I think it defeats the purpose of an ante, which, imo is dubious to begin with. Just go to no ante if you want it to be faster.
What do you think is the purpose of an ante?
I've played in tournaments with no ante. The final table of a no ante tournament filled with OMCs is a tedious affair. The ante makes people bust faster than if there were no ante. Going to no ante would make the hands go by faster, but it would make the tournament slower overall.
I've played in tournaments with no ante. The final table of a no ante tournament filled with OMCs is a tedious affair. The ante makes people bust faster than if there were no ante. Going to no ante would make the hands go by faster, but it would make the tournament slower overall.
I disagree with this analysis. The purpose of an ante is not to make players bust faster or pressure tight players. The purpose of an ante is to allow a structure to be fine tuned. This could be to allow more play or less play depending on how you design it.
The purpose of an ante is to give short stacks a bigger incentive to shove. Without antes, smaller stacks can wait longer before they are in push/fold mode.
If you want to allow more or less play, you can just change the length of the levels.
The purpose of an ante is to give short stacks a bigger incentive to shove. Without antes, smaller stacks can wait longer before they are in push/fold mode.
If you want to allow more or less play, you can just change the length of the levels.
So if we want to fine tune the structure we should go from 30 minute levels to 32 or 28 minute levels?
So if we want to fine tune the structure we should go from 30 minute levels to 32 or 28 minute levels?
Yes! Don't deprive us the joy of reminding the two players every hand to post the antes and watching people try to count out a 400 ante, or post a 25 ante with a 500 chip, or refuse to make change, or going to the camera to see who didn't ante, or....
25 or 35, but micro-managing the structure seems silly to me.
But the point is if you have a tournament and you are wanting to change it either to speed it up, slow it down, speed it up some parts slow it down in others .... There are a number of ways you can adjust your structure. Each will different impacts and you can combine them.
They include:
Changing the starting stack size.
Changing the time of each level.
Changing the blinds.
Adding/changing antes.
Altering the registration period.
Changing the payout structure
And there are more...
I disagree with this analysis. The purpose of an ante is not to make players bust faster or pressure tight players. The purpose of an ante is to allow a structure to be fine tuned. This could be to allow more play or less play depending on how you design it.
This was also my thinking as well, since when I host a home game tournament it is a mixed NLHE/PLO and I plan to use a BB ante as a means to fine tune the structure to try for a better balance in average pot size between NLHE and PLO, while making for smoother increases in blinds and antes per orbit from one level to the next. I believe a ratio of blinds/antes per orbit in NLHE to blinds per orbit in PLO should be more between 1.5:1 to 2:1 rather than 1:1.
So, 1000,2000,2000 level, you are the BB with 2000.
Your 8 opponents all limp.
18000 in the pot.
You can win 2000.
You can just get your chips back.
Seems fair.
Another question ...
2000, 4000, 4000 level
UTG throws in his last 1000.
How much of the 4000 ante can he win?
You're kind of forgetting that everyone takes turns putting out the ante. The short stack putting the BB out 1st when they only have a 1 BB left gets to free roll putting the ante, that would not be fair to everyone else.
(For what its worth I'm actually in the BB first camp but your logic on what is fair is wrong.)
That's not really a free roll because all players get the same benefit.
So while I might be the shortstacked player getting this benefit, I also was risking giving up this benefit to any other player who found themselves in this spot and no player really was going to try to be in this spot to take advantage of it.
If player just paid BB and antes, gets moved to a new table and into a position that has to pay BB and ante. The player must wait until the button passes before being dealt in. Most TD will move a player who is about to be BB, this eliminates most problems.
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This is silly and would never work in any grand scale tournament where tournament tables may be rapidly breaking. The table and position you move to when your table breaks is completely random. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes you don't.
