One thing I've noticed in this thread: a lot of "They don't do it that way around here."

Some of us have worked in this industry in many different regions around the USA. Most of us, have not. We all need to be a little more empathetic about the others' viewpoints.

For example, I've dealt everywhere, north south east and west (MN, MS, NH, and NV). In exactly NONE of those places would a dealer avoid reading the first hand tabled, or any low hand, etc. It sounds like nonsense to me.

OTOH, a coworker recently returned from a vacation in Las Vegas, and noticed, "The poker dealers out there just seem so beaten down! Like they're afraid they'll get yelled at if they speak!" It didn't used to be like this, and I say that from first-hand experience--but that was 20 years ago, for me.

A lot of the dealers in this thread used to deal in LV, and have moved on to other regions. I think they would be well-advised to consider that LV isn't what it used to be. I have no trouble believing that the players who have posted off-beat procedures in this thread are relaying accurate depictions of what is happening in their part of the world.

So a note to all of those I've disagreed with ITT: I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying your way is not the best way.

A dealer reading hands as they are tabled cuts off the opportunity for angle shooting by misdeclaring hands. I think one trend in modern poker should be to make the game less hospitable for angle shooters and I think at least some of the people who argue against the dealer reading hands want to preserve opportunities to angle someone.

One reason that players shouldn't read hands for other players except to correct a misdeclaration is to preserve order at the table and avoid several people creating confusion by talking at the same time. The dealer should be allowed to control the game. Making it their responsibility to read cards as tabled is one way to empower dealers and establish their authority over players.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

So what exactly should the dealer do after all the hands are tabled since he cannot announce the low? Should he just push the pot to the high hand? Is he only allowed to announce it once all hands are tabled? should he silently push the best low hand his half of the pot and muck the rest? Yeah, no one would have a problem with that?
Wrong.
Some dealers don't, but don't let that fool you into believing that they shouldn't. Those dealers are doing it wrong.
Correct. You should never say "there is a low possible".
Wrong.
Wrong.

So we all sit and wait while each player stares at the tabled hand trying to decide if they can beat it or not before deciding to show or muck? Yeah, that won't slow the game down a bit.

I'm with quad, I can't believe where this thread has gone. Everywhere in the world the dealer should be reading the hands as they are tabled. If they are not, then they are doing it wrong or that particular room has trained them wrong. Either way, it's still wrong.

Now, a dealer doesn't need to read every tabled hand. If the first player tables a straight and the next 4 players all table inferior hands, then the dealer doesn't need to say anything. They can just muck the losers and move on.

Thank you for your straight answer to an obviously sincere non-trolling poster.

Now that wasn't so hard. Be nice, other ppl.

This simply isn't right, IMO. Once we're at showdown, hands should be read as they are tabled.
Apart from saving time, it is not incumbent on a player to read his opponent's tabled hand himself before deciding whether to table his own or muck it. The dealer (or even other players) should do so. (If the opponent is at the opposite end of the table, a player often cannot read the hand himself at all.)
Getting tabled hands read correctly at showdown should be a given. It is not a skill which is "part of the game". Cards speak, etc. Keeping quiet in the hope that your opponent will misread his hand and muck isn't part of the game at all.

I think it used to be part of the game but shouldn't be any more.

This thread continues to deliver. How does announcing only part of the hand rank make any sense?

You must only be referring to the specific case where player A shows a high and a low, and player B can beat the low but not the high, but doesn't see his own low. Even so, once A's cards are on the felt, B has a right to know the entire rank of the shown hand. A low is part of the rank in high-low games.

This is completely different from the situation where A shows a hand that has no low, but a low could be possible. In that case "no low" is not part of A's hand rank and shouldn't be announced. The question that case is not "What low does he have?" but "Is a low possible for anyone?" It's that second question where the dealer shouldn't be helping.

I agree with all this post, but the above sounds like the kind of reasoning that leads to me saying something that ends up with 2/3 of the table yelling at me in Seattle. It seems that "I've never seen it done this way anywhere else on God's green earth" is an opinion best kept to myself and maybe this corner of 2+2. Slowly I'm learning to keep mum. Slowly.

There is always a high hand no matter what is on the board. There isn't always a low. That's why. If a player wants to know what the other's low hand is, then ask the dealer. That's not a problem. The problem is bringing attention to another moron at the table who may not know there is a low possibility. I've been at many tables and watched many hands where a player will muck his hand that would have qualified and won the low just because they missed their draw. It should be on the player to recognize if their is a possible low, and/or if they can beat it. Say for instance the dealer announces "player A has a king high flush and no low", now it's been brought to the attention of moron B who has a low but wasn't aware until the dealer said something. See the issue? If you don't that's fine, I'll just bow out of this thread.

Yes, we do see the issue, and that's why everyone agrees with you that the dealer should never say that someone "has no low". They should only announce what the player has, not what they don't have. When they have a weak low, yes, it may alert someone else to the possibility of having a better low. Those are the breaks.

Its no different then if a dealer announces a player has a flush. Perhaps his opponent didn't realize a flush was possible, but on hearing that now realized he has a higher flush.

Literally every single person that has answered you has specifically said that a dealer should NOT be announcing "...but no low" as part of reading hands. Your argument to this point has been about how a dealer shouldn't be announcing lows that exist and are tabled. Holy ****, dude.

OK, Dealers verbalizing the showdowns helps beginners and occasional rec players to not cheat themselves or be angled out of pots by regs and douchebags. This helps keep the former types at the table staying longer AND coming back. This is actually good for everybody even if the regs and Dbags don't get it! OK answer?? Hope so.

Ofc, that's all that was needed. Not this lvling/trolling accusation nonsense. Trolling about what exactly? Some ppl are just weirdos.

And some are overly sensitive.

Late to the party but have seen most of the posts ... And no one has mentioned Robert's or TDA that I have caught.

1) Roberts (cash for 'a lot' of rooms) .. A Dealer shall assist in reading hands but Players are responsible for protecting their hands until a winner is declared.

2) TDA 2017 (red lined) .. Dealers should read and announce hand values at showdown.

There are no other specific details like 'when at least two/all hands are tabled' or in what order. The TDA is more specific but still uses the word 'should' and not 'will' whereas Robert's uses the word 'assist' .. which is open-ended.


There are a lot of personal opinions here, and certainly I have my own, but going back to about the 5th post or so ... Are we discussing 'rule' or are we discussing 'opinion/local procedure'? And even 'rule' can change from room to room, which in itself creates debate.

Personally, my dream Dealer will only announce hands shown down 'in turn'. So if I call a Player on the River and show right away I prefer silence/no Board motion until the bettor shows 'in turn'. I don't want any 'assistance' to a Player who is supposed to show first anyway unless he asks for it. In multi-way pots I think it's fine for the Dealer to muck hands that are shown that aren't winners to avoid exposed cards getting mixed up.

My super pet peeve lately (as I play more PLO) is the short stack tabling their hand 'right away' and thus creating issues for the side pot Players. Obviously the Dealer reading those hands 'right away' when tabled adds to the mess in those spots.

SSooo, by rule I think we are leaning well towards Dealers keeping the game moving along by taking control of the Showdown. But as shown in some of my previous posts, I do think the higher up in stake/experience the less the Dealer should feel the need to step in 'right away' but not let the stand-offs go very long before stepping in. GL

PS ... I also felt that the Vegas Dealers were beat down a bit. Who do you think the Room would choose in a dispute between a Dealer and a Whale? You'd hope that the Floor would back the Dealer in most cases, but in 'that world' where your competition is 20 feet away (or connected) I can see the possibility of economical bias.

The complaining player referred to Roberts and said that "assist" means help if they ask ("what's he got?") not to just do it on your own. Also our room says we use WSOP rules for tourneys and the WSOP ruleset doesn't have that announce language.

You want to see his hand without yours being announced?
Wait for him to turn his hand up. You turn yours up, I'm reading it.

I turn that hand back down and tell him "We're on the side now.".
If he turns it back up, I threaten to muck it.

That's not what it means to me.

Not me, I just don't see a reason to be a jerk when ppl are asking innocent questions. I doubt you'd find a player who tilts less at a live table, I never tap the glass.

From the 2018 WSOP Dealers Reference Guide:



Why would anyone take you as the reactive type.

I didn't want to jump in here, but you make statements that aren't clear and then get defensive when people ask for clarification. No one is trolling you. At one point you even talk about how you've been corrected and that you realize that your "This is how they do it" is not the same as "This is how they do it where I play". Then immediately after, you say "This is how they do it" without the part about how you're only talking about your specific room.

No one is being a jerk to you for the sake of being a jerk. In fact, I don't think anyone is being a jerk to you at all. You may not care or you may think that everyone should remember every post in the entire thread and who to attribute them to, and to also somehow know what you know deep down on the inside, but when you misspeak, it's confusing and people can only take what you type for the words that you type.

No one thinks you're a jerk either, but you ARE getting unnecessarily defensive for someone who was the cause of much of the confusion. I feel the need to add an "It's all good, man" or you're going to put this post on blast too =P added another smiley for increased ease of reception

Thanks! I had the rules for players but this will be very helpful in case he objects again.

[QUOTE=steamraise;54235145]


I turn that hand back down and tell him "We're on the side now.".
If he turns it back up, I threaten to muck it.




This is very unprofessional.

THAT is unprofessional? Then you're gonna HATE what I did once.

ME: Hang on to yours, I want to do the side pot first.

HIM: (tables hand any way)

ME: (turns his hand face down) Side pot hands, please.

HIM: (tables it again)

ME: (turns it down again, speaks to HIM directly) I wanna see the side pot hands first.

HIM: (turns it up a third time)

ME: (takes his cards from him, throws them facedown towards the muck, but not touching it)

HIM: Bwaaaa?

ME: NOW do I have your attention? (gives him back his cards, facedown) We're doing the side pot first.

HIM: (complies, does it my way)