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Should Dealers Read Hands as they are Tabled? Should Dealers Read Hands as they are Tabled?
View Poll Results: Should the dealer read hands as they are tabled?
Yes, absolutely this should happen
64 69.57%
No, absolutely wait until all hands are tabled or a player asks "what does he have?"
10 10.87%
It is fine either way
9 9.78%
It is fine in a cash game, not OK in a tournament
1 1.09%
Dealer should read in a low stakes game, but not in high stakes games
5 5.43%
BASTARD
3 3.26%

09-02-2018 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99
What if you announce the wrong rank and player mucks a winning hand?
I've been at tables where a dealer mistakenly announces the wrong rank of a tabled hand (saying pair and missing the flush or straight) and being that the hand is tabled, and to protect the integrity of the game, I always point it out right away ("He actually has a straight to the king") because the other players in the hand have the right to act on correct information if they're missing what the dealer also missed. It's not always popular, but it's our responsibility as ethical poker players. I've done it in hands where I'm on the losing end where the dealer, other players, etc. don't notice they have a hand better than mine. I'll just say, "Actually you have a flush" and frustratedly muck my hand, because I'm not a cheater. Best hand should win at showdown, even if you're on the losing end, believe it or not.
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09-02-2018 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99
Actually you don’t it technically violates optah and causes lots of issues. Player tables a flush but other player thinks it’s a pair until you yell out flush. Now he realizes he has a flush too and tables his hand instead of mucking..... you can’t incentive a player to table a hand even as a dealer. What if you announce the wrong rank and player mucks a winning hand?
Local rules... Dealers WILL read out loud all tabled hands. That is from four separate local casinos. But I have seen the same procedure followed at over 40 different casinos including some of the largest rooms in the us.

As to a dealer error, all the players at the game should be speaking up to correct the error.
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09-02-2018 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit
This is 100% incorrect. Please don't spread this any further. I'm not sure where you heard this and it is unfortunate that anyone actually believes it. The reality is that the dealer is supposed to assist with reading hands. Imagine how much slower some games would be if we waited for all hands to be tabled so that we could let the players determine who has the best hand as they, one at a time, stare at the tabled hand(s) and try to determine if they are beat before deciding to show their own hand.
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
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09-02-2018 , 06:37 PM
Dealers WILL read all tabled hands.

That is a direct quote with my emphasis added it is the same at four area casinos. I have seen the same procedure Applied at numerous others. As the first hand is tabled, dealer reads the hand and pushes up the board cards that play. Any subsequent hand which is tabled is also read out loud and if it is a better hand, the pushed up cards are adjusted as needed for the new hand

But the key word is WILL, not can, may or when all or after two, etc. will makes the procedure very clear.
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09-02-2018 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
PLAYER A: (tables a straight)

DEALER: (sits mute)

PLAYER B: (tables a flush)

DEALER: Flush.

NINE OTHER PLAYERS: That's a straight!

Sounds like a fun game! Let's do that every hand! This way is clearly way better!
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09-02-2018 , 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
If you triumphantly table 7-high in the hopes that someone mucks a winner, you can't get mad when the dealer announces 7-high. Get the **** outta here.
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09-02-2018 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
What if two bluffs are shown? Do I sit quietly and hope someone tables a hand I can read?
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09-02-2018 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
Let me be absolutely clear.

You are completely wrong.


It is baffling to me that there are people here who don't get the easy concept of "The dealer reads hands as they are tabled." It's a little bit funny, and a lot of bit sad.

It's even worse as every industry insider comes into this thread confirming this fact, yet there are still those who simply cannot understand.
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09-02-2018 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
So for Omaha specifically the dealer should announce the rank (hi) but never the lo if its hi/lo
LOOOOOOOOOOL this guy too. You announce what low a player has when he tables his hand. Good grief.
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09-03-2018 , 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled.
The next most wrong post in this thread was insanely wrong, and you somehow leapt over it with plenty of clearance.
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09-03-2018 , 01:25 AM
There are tankers and people on their phones and other things slowing down games. Having a dealer announce hand as they are tabled is one way to speed up the game.
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09-03-2018 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
A dealer shouldn’t read the hands until at least two hands have been tabled. If just one is tabled, that’s the winner and no need to say what ha d he has. Immediately announcing the hand gives away a bluff - it is the responsibility of the other player in the hand to table his hand if he wants to win.
This is just plain wrong.
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09-03-2018 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
A low should be announced, but not the absence of the low.
That's always been my understanding. Just say, "Ace-high flush" or whatever, but don't say, "no low."

What about if someone asks, "Does she have a low?" when the board doesn't make any low available? Probably best practice would be to answer "No, she does not." But it doesn't matter because it's Omaha so at least 7 other players will chime in. "There's no low out there!"

Quote:
But all lows share the same rank (a high card) when playing 8/b.

It often makes more sense to announce the cards the player is using for low as that is what is most easily understood.
For a while I was playing at a room where a dealer would announce, "8-7-5-3-ace low.... But he's got an 8-7-5-deuce-ace for low." After several sessions I couldn't take it and politely asked him for the abridged version. He said, "Oh, OK," as though no one had ever made this request before.

Quote:
Announcing 4 duece for low usually is better understood than announcing 6 5 4 duece ace for low. The exception is the wheel.
Sure, but when a "live card" low is involved I think it's fine to announce that. "Live deuce to a 6." And if anyone's baffled, follow with the clarification: "6-5-4-deuce-ace."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanhatch
I've been at tables where a dealer mistakenly announces the wrong rank of a tabled hand (saying pair and missing the flush or straight) and being that the hand is tabled, and to protect the integrity of the game, I always point it out right away ("He actually has a straight to the king") because the other players in the hand have the right to act on correct information if they're missing what the dealer also missed. It's not always popular, but it's our responsibility as ethical poker players. I've done it in hands where I'm on the losing end where the dealer, other players, etc. don't notice they have a hand better than mine. I'll just say, "Actually you have a flush" and frustratedly muck my hand, because I'm not a cheater. Best hand should win at showdown, even if you're on the losing end, believe it or not.
Good for you. I agree with all of this, and it's sad that there are people who would think this is out of line.

It's literally in the rulebooks that players SHOULD speak up if the pot is wrong or may be misawarded. Not have the right to speak up. Should.

Misreading a tabled hand (to be a higher rank than it is) is a huge step toward misawarding the pot and needs to be pointed out immediately. The next player mucking a winner based on the mistaken call would be a disaster. Any player should speak up there. If it's misread in the other direction, it's slightly less urgent because someone will speak up before the pot is pushed.
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09-03-2018 , 02:54 PM
*The cards speak*, what am I missing here?
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09-03-2018 , 03:34 PM
Proper procedures should be that the dealer should only announce hands if requested by a player or if a player has an impairment that makes it hard for him to read the board. Otherwise, the dealer should let the players try to bluff other players into mucking a winning hand.


Just wanted to see if I could actually make the dealer's in this thread heads explode.
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09-03-2018 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
*The cards speak*, what am I missing here?
Depends on what you mean by that comment. Why don't you tell us what you're missing.
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09-03-2018 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Depends on what you mean by that comment. Why don't you tell us what you're missing.
I'd rather not comment in this specific case as I don't play Omaha.

For NLH, I meant just that, the cards are face up, dealers don't usually announce unless prompted to, in which case they should. I don't think players should announce the hands though, especially when they aren't in the hand.
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09-03-2018 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1
I'd rather not comment in this specific case as I don't play Omaha.

For NLH, I meant just that, the cards are face up, dealers don't usually announce unless prompted to, in which case they should. I don't think players should announce the hands though, especially when they aren't in the hand.
Yeah, that is what I thought you meant,. Unfortunately, that is the opposite of what "cards speak" actually means
It really means that, as soon as cards are tabled, the cards have already spoken, meaning the best hand possible has effectively been announced.

This implies that no one at the table who simply "repeats" what the cards have already stated can possibly be providing improper assistance to any player or violating OPTAH.
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09-03-2018 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Yeah, that is what I thought you meant,. Unfortunately, that is the opposite of what "cards speak" actually means
It really means that, as soon as cards are tabled, the cards have already spoken, meaning the best hand possible has effectively been announced.

This implies that no one at the table who simply "repeats" what the cards have already stated can possibly be providing improper assistance to any player or violating OPTAH.
Hmmm, I really misunderstood 'the cards speak'? Isn't it just that when is tabled it shows what it shows. So dealers should always announce the hand? However, they usually don't, there's no consistency.

I don't see a prb if someone asks but just to volunteer the confirming info of the hand w/o anyone asking?
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09-03-2018 , 06:56 PM
Cards speak, but since they have no tiny card vocal chords, the dealer vocalizes what the cards are saying.

I stopped reading this thread a while ago because it was an open and shut topic, but returned today to see I have missed an astounding discussion. Either that, or the most sophisticated case of multiple troll collusion I have ever seen.
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09-03-2018 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverine
Cards speak, but since they have no tiny card vocal chords, the dealer vocalizes what the cards are saying.

I stopped reading this thread a while ago because it was an open and shut topic, but returned today to see I have missed an astounding discussion. Either that, or the most sophisticated case of multiple troll collusion I have ever seen.
Not everyone's trolling, some like me probably aren't too clear (in hindsight) and vocalize what we thought was correct but it's good to find out for sure.

Problem is that there is no consistency and dealers usually don't announce hands.
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09-03-2018 , 07:51 PM
That may be just where you play. At most of the places I have played most dealers are good about reading tabled hands.
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09-03-2018 , 08:35 PM
You should never announce to the players that there is a low. You may bring attention to something that a player may not have been aware of. It is perfectly OK to announce their high, but with the low you should not say what low they have unless the other player asks what is their low. It isn't the worst thing in the world if you announce the low, but you shouldn't do it for the purpose of bringing it to the attention of someone who may not have known there was a low.
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09-03-2018 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce24off
You should never announce to the players that there is a low.
Wrong. Always announce the high and the low (when one exists), as they are tabled and as they become the winning hands.

To clarify the above discussion, "cards speak" means that the value of a tabled hand is what the cards say it is, not what the player tabling them (or other players, or the dealer) says or thinks it is. As an example, it means that if a player misreads his hand and thinks he has a straight and says "straight" while tabling his hand, but he really has a flush, then his hand is read as a flush, not as the straight he thought he had. If a player thinks he has a loser but still tables his hand and it is a winner, then that player wins the hand. No player needs to know what his hand value is in order to get credit for it and win the hand as long as he tables his hand at showdown. The cards themselves, not the players tabling them, speak what their value is. Cards speak.

"Cards speak" has nothing to do with whether or not a dealer should be announcing the value of a hand at showdown. That should be a completely separate procedure which the room decides on and puts in their dealer manuals. As you can see from reading the discussion above, just about every cardroom employee and manager here is telling you that the dealer should announce both the high and the low (if there is one) in Omaha hi-low as soon as the first hand is tabled. It might be a little more varied in hold'em, but most rooms likely have a procedure which indicates that the dealers should be reading those hands as they are tabled there as well.

Last edited by dinesh; 09-03-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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09-03-2018 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
That may be just where you play. At most of the places I have played most dealers are good about reading tabled hands.
OK, so that's the actual rule, dealers are supposed to announce all hands as they come? They definitely don't do that where I play (if not asked, of course).
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