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Ruling question Ruling question

12-19-2018 , 05:54 PM
Stacks otr:
V1 130-150€
V2 102€
Hero 220€

River (155) 887QT
Hero (sb) checks, V1 checks, V2 (otb) bets 10€, hero x/r to 80€, V1 calls 80€, V2 goes allin for 102€. We put our stack in and the dealer says we cant go allin. We can only call. I was a bit confused and said ofc we can still go allin but he insists we cant...
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12-19-2018 , 06:04 PM
The ruling would be the same at my local casino because the all in wasn't a full raise. Think of it this way... if you raised to $101 and someone called and then someone else went all in for $102, should you be allowed to reraise when the action gets back to you? In many casinos the "door is closed" unless the all in is a full raise... you raised $70 so the all in would have to be a reraise of $70 more to allow you to raise again. At least that's my 2 cents anyways.
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12-19-2018 , 06:07 PM
I know what u mean with the raise but at this casino i think it was allways possible to still go allin
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12-19-2018 , 06:24 PM
Depends on your room's rules, but in most rooms the door is only opened for the previous better/raiser to a reraise if the all-in raise is >= a certain percentage of the previous bet/raise; in some rooms this needs to be 100% but in others it can be something else (such as in my room it is 50%).

In this case here, you raised $70 over the $10 bet, so in order for the door to be opened for you to reraise in my room the all-in raise would have to be 50+% of $70 = $35 and thus a total of $115+. So a reraise wouldn't be allowed in this case in my room. At least, I think.

Gconfirmyourroomrules,imoG
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12-19-2018 , 06:30 PM
Depends on your house rules then, but I normally that is not the case. The rule that you can always go all in normally means you can move in even if you don't have a full raise, but that doesn't reopen the betting. So in this case at a typical casino V2 can go all in even though he doesn't have enough to make a legal raise.
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12-19-2018 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUYAPA
I know what u mean with the raise but at this casino i think it was allways possible to still go allin
Generally the dealers will know the rules as basic as that one. Most places you can't re-raise.
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12-19-2018 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Generally the dealers will know the rules as basic as that one. Most places you can't re-raise.
And yet often they won't. Math is hard. (Which, I guess, is different from knowing the rules.)

Where I play, only a full raise reopens the action, and sometimes "can I raise?" gets an "Ummmm, well...." (or worse, a quick wrong answer) even in the clearest of situations.
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12-20-2018 , 12:00 AM
I would hope dealers would know how to handle this spot, since I feel it comes up about once every few hours in NL games. I have never played in a room where you would be allowed to do anything other than fold or call the additional $22.

My room requires the all-in to be at least a full raise to re-open the betting. In this case villains shove would have to be $150+. This seems to be the norm nowadays (but I don't get around much). Years ago it seemed only a 50% raise was required. In this case, it would've needed to be $115.
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12-20-2018 , 02:56 AM
Dealer is right, you are wrong.
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12-20-2018 , 03:01 AM
AFAIK in NL it has always taken a full raise to reopen action to prio bettor or callers. The confusion about 50% allowing reopening action is from when limit was the more common game. In limit 50% does reopen action to at least complete the partial raise. But in NL again AFAIK or remember it has always been a full bet to reopen. At least at the large majority of rooms.
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12-20-2018 , 07:06 AM
Everywhere I know of it would need to be a full raise of at least 150 in order to re-open the betting. Dealer was right.
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12-20-2018 , 08:26 AM
WOWo ... Dealer is correct, but where did you get the idea that you could go all-in 'any' time?

Even in Limit play you need an all-in total bet of $115 or more to reopen the betting.

Knowing this rule and paying attention to stack sizes has been put to very good use at least once a session for me!! I will either 'trap' other opponents into calling the all-in at a good price or leave the door open to isolating (with all the dead chips in the pot) when it comes back around depending on what I want to do with the hand.

On the flip side there's nothing better than a Player shoving in $300 and saying 'all-in' followed up by the Dealer saying "The bet is $65" while playing PLO!! GL
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12-20-2018 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUYAPA
I know what u mean with the raise but at this casino i think it was allways possible to still go allin
Well, every casino can make whatever rules it wants, but if this is really the rule where you play, you should be aware that it's an extremely unusual rule. (And a bad one).
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12-20-2018 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
….On the flip side there's nothing better than a Player shoving in $300 and saying 'all-in' followed up by the Dealer saying "The bet is $65" while playing PLO!! GL
This isn't always done out of ignorance; it's sometimes actually a classic (bush-league) PLO angle/bluff.
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12-20-2018 , 11:35 AM
Action is only opened back up to a previous actor if that player is facing a full raise. Some rooms have a 50% or more rule, but as others said that is usually reserved for limit games. Normally, all you can do here is fold or call the other player's all-in.
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12-20-2018 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUYAPA
Stacks otr:
V1 130-150€
V2 102€
Hero 220€

River (155) 887QT
Hero (sb) checks, V1 checks, V2 (otb) bets 10€, hero x/r to 80€, V1 calls 80€, V2 goes allin for 102€. We put our stack in and the dealer says we cant go allin. We can only call. I was a bit confused and said ofc we can still go allin but he insists we cant...
V2: bets 10
Hero: raise of 70 for a total bet of 80
V1: calls 80
V2: goes all in for 102. This is only 22 more than the previous bet so it is not a raise. It would have to be 150 (70 more) to count as a raise.
Hero's options are to call or fold.
V1's options are to call or fold.
In order for you to re-raise (or go all in), you must be facing a raise. You were not facing a raise, so you cannot raise. This is standard everywhere. If this is not the rule where you play, then they have a terrible rule.
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12-22-2018 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUYAPA
Stacks otr:
V1 130-150€
V2 102€
Hero 220€

River (155) 887QT
Hero (sb) checks, V1 checks, V2 (otb) bets 10€, hero x/r to 80€, V1 calls 80€, V2 goes allin for 102€. We put our stack in and the dealer says we cant go allin. We can only call. I was a bit confused and said ofc we can still go allin but he insists we cant...
You could also fold.
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12-23-2018 , 02:52 AM
I have this discussion alot in my room. Some of the floor believe that because the first guy checked and a full bet occurs and then the partial raise,that the checker can shove all in as his action is not limited by partial raise.
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12-23-2018 , 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I have this discussion alot in my room. Some of the floor believe that because the first guy checked and a full bet occurs and then the partial raise,that the checker can shove all in as his action is not limited by partial raise.
In the situation you just described, "the checker" should be allowed to go all in. But that is not what happened in OP.
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12-23-2018 , 05:21 AM
If hero wanted to induce a situation where he can rejam he should have made it $56
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12-23-2018 , 08:09 AM
I disagree with the notion that all dealers know this rule. In fact, I’d say the majority of the time, the dealer initially gets the math wrong or incorrectly prevents/allows someone from acting.

Most players also either don’t know the rule or are not 100% certain of its application, and need to ask for clarification. (“Dealer, can I raise here?”). This might give away your hand.

As another poster said, it is very much to your advantage as a player to know this rule cold.
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12-27-2018 , 03:19 PM
I see it all the time where a player that absolutely knows the rule and knows he has a good dealer and he will purposely attempt to raise in order to look strong, knowing full well the dealer will not allow it. 100% of the time he has a marginal hand or draw at best.
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12-27-2018 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUYAPA
V2 (otb) bets 10€, hero x/r to 80€, V1 calls 80€, V2 goes allin for 102€.
You raised 70. You were raised 22. You can't re-raise yourself.
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12-29-2018 , 09:51 AM
Yeah, you can’t raise in this spot.
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12-30-2018 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupOfSalt
Yeah, you can’t raise in this spot.
Yeah.
You can’t raise in this spot.

Last edited by DCJ001; 12-30-2018 at 06:26 PM.
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