Ruling on a likely angle shoot? - Page 2 - Poker Card Room

I've never been to Split, Croatia much less played poker there, but I can't imagine their normal rules would end up forcing this result. In my room if you don't alert the dealer immediately that you have the improper number of cards, your hand is absolutely dead and all bets that you've made are forfeited. The rest of the hand stays, considering how much substantial action (is there even an adjective for this much substantial action?) happened and OP should win the pot. I definitely consider this an angle, and the guy would probably be done for the night or longer.

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08-10-2017 , 08:34 PM

#27

johnny_on_the_spot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora Tom

(is there even an adjective for this much substantial action?)

Ummmm... substantial?

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08-10-2017 , 08:35 PM

#28

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,227

What did SB have?

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08-10-2017 , 08:45 PM

#29

dinesh

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,412

The 3.

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08-10-2017 , 09:30 PM

#30

Rawlz517

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,247

Terrible ruling and this is exactly why. You're letting a player freeroll the pot by taking aggressive action and either winning the pot without showdown, or getting their money back.

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08-10-2017 , 09:31 PM

#31

spider

adept

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,012

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDHarrison

There is at least one plausible way that he was not angle-shooting and legitimately believed he had Q9. He may have been dealt Q9 on the previous hand and was recalling that hand. I have seen something like that happen before. I don't have an opinion on whether this was likely to be an angle shoot, but I am confident in saying it was not certainly an angle shoot.

Uh, did that guy also go all-in on the river with one card and accidentally think he had a boat?

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08-10-2017 , 10:14 PM

#32

aaronk56

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For all those saying dead hand, I know of at least one place where you can play with fewer than the correct amount of cards, e.g. 1 card in Holdem or 3 in Omaha. More cards than is proper is a misdeal prior to significant action and a dead hand after significant action.

I think this rule is fine.

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08-10-2017 , 11:23 PM

#33

DCJ001

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by onguard

No way is that a misdeal after that action.

Exactly.

If you have one card at showdown, you lose.

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08-10-2017 , 11:27 PM

#34

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Hypothetically, say he had the one card nut flush on a 4 flush board at showdown.

i.e. he has A

on 3

His hand is dead?

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08-10-2017 , 11:51 PM

#35

dinesh

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,412

According to RROP, yes. I don't really have a problem with a room rule that let's you play with fewer cards. But I will want to count the deck down afterwards.

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08-11-2017 , 12:47 AM

#36

browni3141

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Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Eh, I think playing one card is the best ruling, but that is not helping him in this circumstance. Of course hands with extra cards would always be dead.

I can't think of a great reason not to let someone play one card.

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08-11-2017 , 10:06 AM

#37

answer20

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

He has A

on 3

His hand is dead?

Yes, unless room rule allows for it. VERY significant action has taken place and Dead Hand = "doesn't contain the proper number of cards for that game."

Being on the B this player could've received his 2nd card and the hand could've carried on after, but he out of luck in this spot.

Also Misdeals #1 rule ... Once action begins a misdeal can't be called and no money/chips will be returned to a player whose hand is 'fouled'.

This one's pretty straight forward but as with most things in poker ... It depends .. GL

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08-11-2017 , 10:26 AM

#38

spider

adept

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,012

A couple relevant portions from general poker rules (not just hold'em) found here: http://www.cardplayer.com/rules-of-poker

Quote:

(under the "dead hands" section)
The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that poker form (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See Section 16 - Explanations, discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]

So, it seems pretty clear the hand is dead by a strict reading of the rules altho prior posts offered rationales by which this is or is not consistent with other rules.

Quote:

(in the "irregularities" section)
A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.

Not directly relevant, but the spirit of this rule clearly argues against allowing the angle shoot this guy tried.

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08-11-2017 , 11:13 AM

#39

Suit

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Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacardiblack

This happened in Split, Croatia.

This is why.

In any well-run poker room this guys hand would be dead and you would win the pot. There is no other option that should ever be considered.

Become best buds with all the dealers there and tell them to deal you only one card every time you are on the button and welcome to freerolltown

Also, in any well-run poker room this clown would be asked to leave. I wouldn't hesitate after revealing his deuce.

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08-11-2017 , 11:51 AM

#40

Bene Gesserit

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So , again, in a few/some places the rules are whatever the dealer or floor says they are. Especially when the reg with one card is likely the dealers brother in law or something. Split? Really ?? Split is the name of the casino/town.???

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08-11-2017 , 12:26 PM

#41

madlex

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit

Split? Really ?? Split is the name of the casino/town.???

Split is the largest city in Dalmatia which is on the shore of the Adriatic Sea and a very popular tourist destination for people from all over Europe.

Ruling is obv ridiculous but nothing you can really do about it, especially if you are from Western Europe.

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08-11-2017 , 01:48 PM

#42

Bene Gesserit

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Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

OK Thanks. Mostly I was amused by the small irony of the floor decision in a place called Split. Good thing it wasn't the **** you casino I guess.

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08-11-2017 , 02:33 PM

#43

Koko the munkey

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit

Good thing it wasn't the **** you casino I guess.

Can you imagine?

"Hey where are you going to play cards tonight?"

"**** you."

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08-11-2017 , 04:56 PM

#44

browni3141

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Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

This is why.

In any well-run poker room this guys hand would be dead and you would win the pot. There is no other option that should ever be considered.

What's wrong with letting him play one card? I can imagine circumstances where one card may be accidentally mucked, but the other one is enough to win.

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08-11-2017 , 05:57 PM

#45

bacardiblack

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by spider

I wonder if the dealer could be in on this and getting a kickback from the guy with one card? Especially if they know this is how the floor is going to rule.

I sort of get my antennae up here for a tourist in a tiny unknown cardroom where most people are locals... although I can't see how the dealer is going to know in advance that a tourist is going to be in this hand. Unless he often deals this guy a single card and they wait to pull this until an unsuspecting tourist is in the hand?

Also, they have a camera with only 2 tables?!? Is that common? Just asking, I have no idea.

I believe dealer was not involved and that it was an honest mistake not dealing that card. It's a casino with 4 poker tables in total, they always start the evening with a tournament and mostly those who finish in a tourney start a table. There were two cash tables open on that day.

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