our room uses the forward motion rule, so if your hand starts forward before you say anything, you are bound to using at most the amount of chips in your hand and cannot go back a second time. You can call, or raise if you have enough chips, but can't reload. We do use the TDA rule that states that if you declare raise before going forward, you can come forward with exactly the call amount, but no more, and then go back for one more motion. If you say raise and come forward with more than the call amount, that is the max size of your raise with no second motion. But saying raise after you have started your forward motion never entitles you to go back and get more chips.

I believe you that that is the rule in your room, but the "forward motion rule" means many things to many people, it's not like it only means the rule you described.

* In general, "forward motion" is only used as a descriptor for rooms that don't instead use a hard and fast betting line or chips released standard to delineate what and when you've bet, and doesn't mean anything other than that you have at least called or bet when your hand goes past your cards with chips when action is on you

* In some rooms it means you are committed to bet any and all chips in your hand (corrected up or down if needed to meet 50% rule requirements)

* In some rooms it means that moving forward commits you to at least a bet or call, but does not proscribe one or the other, or prevent what happened in the OP

* In some rooms it may means what it means in your room, that you must bet or call, and can raise no more than what is in your hand

No time to read Robert's right now, but when Suit AND dinesh 'approve' of something I pretty much accept. I don't think this would fly in pretty much all of 'my' rooms. I think a Player would have to declare the raise during forward motion and prior to cutting out the first stack of chips in the betting area.

Seen plenty of Players cut out a call behind their cards, possibly looking for a reaction, and then declaring a raise while they put the call out into the betting area. Either way, the Dealer is under some pressure to find that line in the sand whether it's a raise or not.

I believe Robert's still states that you can go back and forth as many times as you want if you declare a raise ... and we don't enforce that one! GL

I doubt most rooms have a rule about something this specific unless it has come up before and a Floor was called over and then that Floor brought it to the attention of his management team. So I think this will be more Floor dependent than room dependent. It might also depend on the timing. I have seen string raises called based on whether chips in the air have hit the felt or not...

I would hope most Floors would rule that this is a raise because that is the clear intent of the bettor. It would be rare for a player to be raising because of a tell. More likely would be that the player is still thinking about it while bringing calling chips out and decides to raise as he is betting (I did this once and was called for a string raise even though I had brought raising chips out - because I hesitated before dropping the raise). Or he was intending to raise and was concentrating on dropping the calling amount before announcing his raise.

In any case I don't call string bets anymore when I am in a hand. I want the raise to stand if it is to my advantage and because of that I would consider it an angle to allow the raise when I want it and disallow the raise on a technicality because I don't want it.

I just wait until the action is complete.

If I started to act because I thought the action was complete and then villain attempts to raise, then I would call a string bet. But that hasn't happened in the 12 years I have been playing at casinos...

From the point of view of the bettor, I never say raise and then put out calling chips. I don't want a ruling to depend on how many people have heard me say raise when my actions indicate a call.

I don't really see any difference between the way our room uses the rule, and the bullets you put in your post, other than in some rooms you must bet/raise with all the chips in your hand, rather than being able to cut out a bet and return the rest of the chips to your stack. But other than that, the bullets you have describe the same use of the rule that our room uses, i.e. you are at least committed to a call/bet, and can raise up to the amount in your hand (and the 50% rule comes into play if you bring forward an inbetween amount). The key point was that under our interpretation of the rules, if you didn't say raise before you started forward, you can never go back for a second motion and put in more chips.

apparently in some rooms you can go forward, start cutting out chips, and then say raise and go back for more chips. I've never played in a room like that. Where I've played, the "raise" must come before the hand comes forward, as stated in the TDA rules.

You said "our room uses the forward motion rule, so if your hand starts forward before you say anything, you are bound to using at most the amount of chips in your hand and cannot go back a second time."

I'm just saying that "forward motion rule" doesn't mean "if your hand starts forward you are bound to using at most the amount of chips in your hand."

It can mean that, it can mean you are bound to using all the chips in your hand, or it can mean you are bound to at least a bet or call but can also raise any legal amount up to all your chips. So the OP's room also uses the forward motion rule, but had a very different outcome than your room would have.

I expect that most rooms have a rule (even if not written) about this because it is not an uncommon issue and new players learn the string bet rule pretty early on so it is often called out by players.

Except this isn't stated in The TDA rules. Yes you could read the TDA rules to support this ... But you can also read them not to support this simply by how you define terms. Which is kind of our point when we say it is room specific. Most rooms generally have the same string bet rule .... But the difference is at what point you define a motion to have been made or completed.

From TDA rules. looks pretty clear to me that the verbal raise must occur before the chips go forward if you want to go back for a second load, as the OP stated. It's too late to say raise after you have brought chips forward.

46: Methods of Raising
In no-limit or pot-limit, a raise must be made by A) pushing out the full amount in one motion; B) verbally declaring the full amount prior to pushing out chips; or C) verbally declaring “raise” prior to pushing out the exact call amount then completing the raise in one additional motion. In option C, if other than the exact call amount but less than a minimum raise is first put out, it will be ruled a minimum raise. It is the responsibility of players to make their intentions clear.

I understood that this was the way you read the rules. But it is not the only reading of the rules. The short version of our disagreement is you read this as "Prior to starting the physical action" and I read this as "Prior to completing the physical action"

You interpret "pushing out the chips" to be a discrete motion of pushing out chips and interpret "prior to pushing out the exact call amount" as meaning you most declare the raise before starting this discrete motion.

I consider putting out the chips (And I say putting not pushing because frequently as in the case we are discussing NO CHIPS WERE PUSHED ... they were held and placed in the betting area) to be a process ..... and if one makes a verbal declaration while in this continuous process .... and the verbal action is PRIOR to the putting out of the chips because the putting out of the chips has not yet been completed.

So by my reading the physical act is simultaneous with the act of putting out the chips so we should look at Rule 40 as the controlling rule:

I understand your position but I disagree with it. I think the TDA uses poor language here in "pushing out chips". What does that mean. Is any forward motion no matter slight pushing out chips? What about players who don't push, but carry and place chips? What of players who toss chips? This choice of language is open to different interpretations.

How is putting out the 60 and then saying raise any different from putting out the 60, taking it back and saying you're going to fold instead? Neither should be allowed