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Rules Question Rules Question

10-21-2017 , 05:32 PM
1/3 NL at Northern Quest, Spokane, WA

The river Jc gives our Hero an A high flush which is the nuts. There is about 60 in the pot when Villain leads 45 into me. I size up his stack and figure he has about 130 behind and I cover. I figure he might be able to get away from a shove so I try to go for what I call a tipping bet, an amount that if he calls will prompt him to tip all of his chips in. So I raise 70 to 115. It works, he excitedly shoves all of his chips in and immediately flips over top set. No verbal declaration, but there was definitely forward motion with all of his chips and most spilled across the line.

He's so excited that I'm worried that somehow I missed that he somehow has a boat, but there is no pair on board, so there was a brief pause on my part but certainly not anything that could be called a slow roll. I turn over my hand and show him the bad news. Then there's an awkward pause, and I think it's just everyone trying to read the situation, but there was still something wrong when realized I never called the shove. So I say I call, I still have my exposed cards in my possession.

The dealer sends me the pot but gives the last 60 back to the villain and rules that Villain only called.

I don't know, I'm certain I should have been given all of his chips, but wondered is there any other way to see this. I did not call for a ruling from the floor.

Last edited by Rapid_Fire; 10-21-2017 at 05:38 PM.
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10-21-2017 , 05:59 PM
The main thing I would question is whether V shoved in one motion. If so, I would rule an all in. That being said, asking and letting the dealer do his job will behoove you in the future. Happens often to me, just ask if player is all in before doing anything.
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10-21-2017 , 06:21 PM
As described, you should have gotten his stack. But there are several reasons why a floor (or dealer, in this case) might rule otherwise:

1- If the player did not actually put in all of his chips, and the amount he did put in is not enough for a full raise (according to the 50% rule), then by rule he has actually called.

2- Additionally, given that player immediately flipped over his hand, it seems like maybe he also thought he was calling, not raising. Now, this could still go a number of ways. Maybe he thought you had bet enough to cover him and he thought he was calling all-in. But maybe he just mis-read his stack size. Or maybe he did not actually intend to put all his chips in - you say that "most spilled" across the line. That does not fill me with confidence that he intended to put them all in.

3- There are occasional times when a bet which has not yet been called can be returned to a player when an irregularity occurs. This isn't likely to be one of them, because the player opening his hand prematurely wouldn't have affected your decision to call, given you had the nuts.
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10-21-2017 , 09:26 PM
just wait until the chips are in the pot before you show your hand. always ask that the pot be right before you show. these situations are coming up all the time and it is usually because people acting too quickly before the action is clear.
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