Thanks for helping put things in perspective. Obv I haven't been a longtime 2+2 poster so I don't know the posters that well. I am mainly interested in the opinions of proven 2/5 winners (players with a win rate comparable to or exceeding my own). Nothing against anyone who's offered their opinion in this thread. I just have to figure out which pieces of advice to weigh most heavily.

It's like when my family and friends keep trying to tell me not to do this. When you keep hearing the same advice from everyone around you, you start to believe it. Then I have to remind myself that they know literally nothing about poker and would think I was speaking Latin if I tried to explain EV or range v. range equity to them.

I'm not worried about "regs." If anything I like having a few consistent mediocre opponents whose games I can learn inside out and therefore attempt to exploit better than a random. It's the genuine proven pros I'd rather not have to tangle too much with.

Also, if most of the regs are OMCs, please shoot me. Yes they can be easily beaten, but rarely for large win rates.

If you are planning on specifically low stakes NLH, then Vegas is probably the best option in the country. The game selection, rock bottom cost of living, and round the clock party scene makes it very possible to sustain yourself at 2/5 or even 1/2.

In terms of average toughness of games, I would say that on AVERAGE the 2/5 games in vegas have more decent players in them than anywhere else. However, having all the casinos in walking distance from one another makes table selection much easier than in other locales. Also keep in mind that a mediocre win rate, say 30/ hour, goes much farther in LV than in LA where at that rate you might as well flip burgers (you may say this is an exaggeration, but it's less of one than you think). So even though the games might be a bit tougher and you might not be able to win 40+ like in some other locations the cost of living counter balances that. Disclaimer: I think 50/hour is possible for the cream of the crop in Vegas, but just not sure if that is you.


For 5/10 NL + and big limit games/PLO I think there are much better options out there.

Solid post. Thanks.

MD has one of the highest rates of State Income tax so between federal/state about 25-27% of my income was already taxed. Before I left, I was managing a failing auto garage business with a friend and working a part time gig. My living expenses were about $1450/month (rent/utilities in Silver Spring MD), transportation was about $630 ($205 insurance, $425 car payment on a 2008 Mustang GT Convertible), so with Fuel, Food, and Cell Phone we're a bit north of $2250/month.

Moved to Vegas (No State Income Tax, so about 15% of my income is taxed), splitting rent/utilities on a 6 br/4 bath house with 3 other roomates ($600/month incl utilities), driving a much cheaper vehicle, 2012 Mitsubishi Galant ($225/month, $130 Insurance). So in actuality, my expenses are almost 50% less than living back east by myself. While I am spending a bit more money in entertainment/buy ins, I am still making out way cheaper in Vegas living with cool people that I can trust.

the fact that your personal expenses, as an individual, are 2.5x less while living in vegas is not enough to make the general statement that "The cost of living in vegas is 2.5x less than MD" becasue you went from driving a mustang to a galant, and went from living on your own to living with 3 other roommates.

In order to properly calculate the cost of living difference, for example, you would have to be living the same exact lifestyle in each location, and then compare the cost of each.

I would think you can pay about 800/mo in vegas on a comparable 1400/mo rental in MD for the same exact apartment, so the "cost of living" is probably about 30% less in vagas (0.3x less).

I'm a FL player with a good bit of 2/5 exp and I will say the fish are there but I have to agree with what a few people have already said, if COL is a priority, don't come down here, its bordering on ridiculous in some parts, and the parts that aren't terrible on price, well....

As for availability of games 2/5 runs at the Hard Rock almost 24/7 and on busier nights (thurs-sat) there is almost always a 2/5DS running (500-1k buyin) if you can beat regs, this game is awesome as I have seen this table running with over $25k on it.
1/2 reloading isn't a bad option for patient players down here as it gets really fishy during primetime and as the night begins to wind down. Once you notice 2-3 tables break though its time to bail on 1/2.
Comps - lol. Most casino comp programs down here are straight garbage. $1/hr at 2/5, can be used to be tournament entries and food within the room but not much else (poker comps treated much differently than casino comps). Another BS aspect of the system the Seminole tribe uses is that while your players card from HR works at Seminole Coconut Creek (nice room filled with sub-par players), your comps from one don't carry over to the other (unless that changed recently). It is also my understanding that the 5/10+ games are not comped but not having played these, I could be wrong.

One bonus of FL is 0 state income tax, but they get you elsewhere. Car insurance is about 2x the Natl. Ave. if not more. If you do move down here, get uninsured motorist coverage, b/c so many people don't have coverage and you're boned w/o it.

Best of luck, what ever you do decide.

Another solid post. Thanks.

The mental pendulum is swinging Vegas's way once again.

Sshhhh...

I'm interested in seeing his math.

If his cost of living in the first location is $2,000 per month, maybe, in the second location, he will be paid $3,000 to live there.

If so, I will move to the second location.

Also, it is an English sentence.

I would think that Florida would just be over run with grinders by now

^^^ Can anyone confirm/dispute?

I know there aren't many grinders to fear in Jacksonville but obv that's not the spot I'm considering.

I would really like to move to South Florida in the future. The state just seems so fun and everybody says the poker games are good, but I would think the fish/grinder rate would start to be getting too high on the grinder side by now.

But it is not just the cost of housing that is (much) cheaper; as I noted in my earlier post, pretty much everything is cheaper in Vegas: groceries, restaurants, car repair, insurance, hiring trades people, etc., etc., etc. My comparison was between Vegas and SoFla, but the comparison between Vegas and MD would be as great if not greater (depending upon where in MD one chose to live).

Florida 5 years ago was extremely soft. Not shocking that some soft games near the beach attracted some grinders. Another issue I ran into when recently there is the increasing number of "private" games in some casinos there. There is a thread discussing how this works, but basically hosts run games on an invite only basis...in the casino. So even if you see it running on Bravo, you might not get in. (some at 2/5nl level, but mostly higher.) I also didn't like driving 15-45 minutes from casino to casino when tables broke, or the game was a nit fest.

I think your wish for the place where a bunch of fish go, a with large number of games, low cost living, and the decent players only show up once in a while is a fantasy.

If you are a decent 2/5 player you will make money in South Florida. You would also make money in Vegas.

If you think you will enjoy living in South Florida more than Vegas then end your decision there. Quality of life is best choice. If you are looking for a place based on games available, comps, low cost of living, ability to move up in levels, then the choice is Vegas and it's not even close.

Also add to Vegas argument that there are many 1/2nl games that play as deep as most 2/5nl games and you 100% always have some tourist/drunks available at this level. You may have to walk down the street a few times to find a great game, but they are there.

Again though...base it on where you want to live first. Life outside of poker is just as important.

Vegas seems fun but I absolutely hate dry heat.

There are a lot of grinders down here and the Hollywood Hard Rock has a reputation for collusion teams in the 2/5 games (never been a problem for me b/c to the best of my knowledge they've never hit me). Many of the 2/5 "grinders" I know still have day/side jobs but can afford good lives via their poker money. You know the old saying, sit down and if you haven't spotted the idiot in the first 30 minutes, its you. "Table Change!"

As for fish, there are a lot of S. American tourist morons with more money than God who saw poker on Tv and thought "how hard can this be?" I have seen these guys shove 1-2 out draws and not think twice. (77 vs TPTK/Nut flush redraw where one of the 7's makes the flush)

And the Caribbean seems to breed donkeys about as fast as we can take them. How these people pay their rent is beyond me... J4o 4bet shoves (70BBs) into the nittiest player in the room's 3bet. Most of these guys are friendly and fun to play with but damn they can't play. (I do realize that not every person from any specific area plays a certain way)

I don't see a lack of fish in these games and the grinders in the area aren't that bad to play against either, a truly good player wouldn't have a problem with a standard 2/5 table down here.

If you wanted to look into the Tampa area, the Hard Rock there is filled with college kids, some know what they're doing and some don't. Not sure what Tampa COL is but its probably roughly equal to Broward County or some parts of Dade.

This is really, really dangerous thinking.

What percentage of your total profit do you think comes from fantastic games? Your hourly in those games may be high, but your hours are really low.

On average, you're going to be playing average games. (ldo) As a recreational player, you have the luxury of sitting out below average games, skimming the 10 best hours like cream off the top. As a pro, you will dilute your best hours with your worst. You will have to play a considerable amount of below average games.

If you can't beat a randomly picked Tuesday noontime lineup, you're going to have a real hard time making close to what you think you're going to make.

And in addition to my above post, there's the issue of scheduling and lifestyle. I feel like I've posted this a lot recently, but basically consider what kind of lifestyle you live when you're counting on Thu-Sat nights to be your prime work hours.

Worse yet, what happens when you count on the infrequent whale-based games to make a living? You're out on a date and you get a call from the floor you bribed - Megawhale is in the house, and he locked up a seat for you, you have 20 minutes to make it to the casino.

People certainly make these sorts of sacrifices, but for far greater reward than a 2/5 grinder's salary. If I have to leave my wife at a restaurant to cab home from dinner, I want it to be for a 100/200 NL game where I stand a chance to come home 6 figures richer and spend the next few dates with my cell phone off.

And this isn't just poker. Sure, there are people who let their day jobs wreck their personal lives. If I have to fly to China on 20 minutes' notice, it's going to be because I stand to make enough money to ****ing retire.

This is just so dumb after reading you say that Vegas is 40% the COL as MD (that's what 2.5x less means, right???). Like another dude said, you aren't comparing apples to apples at all. Way cheaper car + more roommates in Vegas will tend to make the COL lower

While I agree with the sentiment, and generally wouldn't wish the poker pro life on my worst enemy, I think you're overstating the case here. While it's true you have to make your hours for the week, which might mean sitting in a lot of bad games, this is also true for a rec player but for slightly different reasons.

I can generally play 1-3 nights a week. This week it's Wed and Fri nights. I go on those nights and play whatever the game offers. Sometimes it's a good field, and sometimes it's a tough game. But these are the only two nights I get to play this week, so I'm playing. But I often see the grinders pick up early when this happens, because there's always going to be a game tomorrow.

Perhaps this is less an issue for the NL crowd because table selection, but in that case it's also true for the NL grinders.

That's my current situation. When I first moved here I was shopping apartments and 900 Sq ft in the 700-900 range in Vegas where I was paying 1200/mo for 800 Sq ft in Silver Spring, MD. One of the most expensive counties in the state to live in.

The Northeast is really, really expensive.

I don't think we disagree at all. The grinders can pick up knowing they can beat the game when it starts the next day. What's dangerous is when you don't know you can beat the game when it starts the next day.

Also all this talk about cost of living is pointless, as it's a solved problem.

Large companies routinely make corrections for offers they make to people living in different parts of the country. These adjustments are comprehensive and well known.

There exist free calculators on the Internet.

areavibes.com/cost-of-living-calculator/

I think his point is that grinders actually get to sit in better games on average then recreational players. For instance, if a rec has two specific days he can play for a set amount of hours he is going to sit in a game for that session no matter what even if the game is really bad. A reg on the other hand can just go home knowing that he can check every day/different times to find a game worth playing in. The reg benefits from being able to be in the casino whenever, so he is able to scout the best opportunities for his playing style.

If I am incorrect about what you were trying to say my apologies, but I agreed with that so wanted to throw in my 2 cents.