Just watched Rampage vlog where he said he folded QQ in a previous video cause he didn't want to lose and be "upstuck" so he now stacks his chips so he doesn't know how much he has

this got me to thinking. I DEF play differently if i am up and close to the end of a session and want to secure a win, or if i know exactly how much i am stuck and if I'm close to getting unstuck

so my question is.....do you keep accurate count of your stack? i know its important to know effective stack sizes. but do you track it closely or just eyeball it/.?

Is there a mental game benefit to KNOWING or NOT KNOWING how much you are up or down?

discuss

I never know how much I'm up or even how much I'm in for, I know how much by counting money and chips on me, but I never keep track of it in the game (of course I know in generally speaking amounts).

I do believe there's a mental benefit of not knowing exactly how much I'm down, since I wanna play the same as I've played the day before or earlier in the session, so I just keep playing through it without counting money/chips. Also, when I know I lost maybe 5 out of my last 8 session, I don't look at graphs, stats or results for days until I know I'm through it. When I focus on how many BI's I'm down or if I realized I'm in a 8K downswing, I would tend to play more straight up and bluff less, squeeze light less, etc., so it's just better for me if I focus on my game and not worry about my results over the past couple weeks.

When I start to consider leaving, that's when I do count everything up, see how much I'm in for, and how much I'm up. If I make a decision to leave, I leave without playing any more hands or even waiting for the BB, because that's when I would tighten up and only play good hadns but of course good hands can lose too and then I'm mad I just didn't leave when I wanted to.

What works for me might not work for others but the important thing is to find what works best for you.

That's a pretty impressive troll attempt to tell people they don't know what their stack size is. It is like saying there's an advantage to not know how big the pot is or how much there is in a villain's stack. Of course if you want to continue on this path, don't look at your cards or the board. That definitely affects how you play the hand.

I know my stack size within at least 5% and most of the time less than that. If nothing else, most rooms have a rule that your stack should be organized so that the other players can estimate how much you have. The solution is to learn how to not let whether you are up or down impact your play not violate rules or ignore information.

I’ve never ever been in a room that had (or at least enforced) a rule that Chips need to be organized. Is that a rea thing??

Onky thing j can think of is the rule large chips must be in front

I can tell approximately how much I have by looking at my stack and estimating it within enough to make a pot odds decision if I had to, but the question was about "counting your stack". I don't count it to know exactly how much is there.

You probably have and just don't know it. Here is TDA:

Ah. It’s not a rule. Should be and recommends are the key words.

Notice the high denomination chips MUST be kept visible. That’s a hard rule.

As I said never seen it enforced nor brought up. Since it’s not a rule. So to speak

I've seen it brought up and enforced countless times, including stacks that have been shuffled.

It is a rule many if not most rooms. Now how enforced it is depends. The normal interpretation of clear view is you should be able to discern total stack size. TDA more specifically covers this iirc.

Definitely seen it enforced both in cash and tournies. Might not be considered a rule but if a floor or TD tells you to you will comply or be penalized. That certainly feels like a rule.

I have seen it enforced by dealers in cash without request and without floor involved. Dealers simply told player to restack. Since dealers are only supposed to enforced rules and not make decisions much less opinions, I will call it a rule.

Not knowing your stack size is stupid. But that doesn't mean you have to know how much you're up or down, at least not in uncapped games.

As others have said, a lot of rooms have rules/guidelines in that regards and do enforce them if people have uneven or dirty stacks. For example, having high denomination chips in your shuffling stack isn't OK even though technically they're "clearly visible" because the shuffling stack is usually in front of (or next to) the other chip stacks.

I believe all decent regs, semi-pros and better not only know very close to their own stack size, but the stacks of everyone at the table.

fwiw, the TDA rules use "should" in places where either a stricter meaning should be assumed or more decisive language is warranted. Like for instance, the document says that players "should act in a timely manner". Hopefully you agree they don't mean that players may choose to act in a timely manner if the mood strikes them. Same with every apparent suggestion of when the dealer "should" call the floor. It's more like the legal "shall".

The problem is they use it for actual suggestions too.

Well might be a west coast thjng?? I’ve been playing in Connecticut/New England since 1998 and literally have never seen or heard a dealer or floor tell a player they have to stack their chips.

In fact in multiple occasions I have seen a player just play with a pile of chips the entire night after being pushed pots. Usually they are drunk or tilted AF

Not to mention the countless chip castles and designs. With those no way you can tell how much a player had

Yes, it's a rule. I've enforced it. One that comes to mind is a player who would sit down at a 2-5 NL table every so often and start ordering beers as if his life depended on it. He was a pretty big guy, but drinking 3-4 cans of beer every hour will have a predictable effect during a long session. At a point, his chips would just be in a pile. Nobody could reasonably estimate whether he had a stack of $500 or $1500. I'm not expecting each player to have his chips stacked 20 chips high in neat rows, but I do expect the chips to be organized in a manner that makes it reasonable for another player at the table to have a rough estimate of the total dollar amount in play.

Well, that may be a Connecticut/New England thing.

I have definitely seen a floor require someone to stack their chips, and require another player to restack his chips when he had multiple stacks ranging from 5 chips to 30 all mixed up between green. red and white in a cash game in the mid-atlantic. I mean 8-10 stacks, all dirty.

But, except for that example, no one cares if you have 20 chip stacks, or 10 chip, or 30 chip, as long as a reasonable attempt is made to keep them neat and readable. And large denominations are on top or up front.

And if someone is too drunk to stack their chips? They won't be there for long.

--klez

I would also be eager to accept this as evidence that the rule is not enforced in NE if the alternative were that I have been playing in the wrong games for twenty-four years.

How can you discern I’ve been playing in the wrong games?

I have had more than enough trouble in the past trying to get dual-rates to understand the meaning of the word "may" in the context of "may result in a penalty".

Speaking chip castles, I remember years ago all the castles I would see coverage of them during WSOP ME now nada. Did they stop covering them? Are they still allowed?

The introduction of the Big Blind Ante removed the giant stacks of small denomination chips from the tables (one of the benefits of BBA, I guess?)

I've made a life out or reading people's faces and knowing what their cards were by the way they held their eyes. Every player knows that the secret to surviving is knowing what to throw away and what to keep. You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away and know when to run. You NEVER count your money while sitting at the table, they'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done.

I know, to the dollar, exactly how much I have in my stack at all times.

In a smaller game (5-6 players or less), I will almost always know, to within about 10 dollars, how much each of my opponents has. It gets a bit harder with 8-9 people.

To be fair though, this is more to do with a mild case of OCD than anything else.

Perma-ban.

Or at least it should be. Along with any quite from Rounders. Ever.

I keep my chips stacked properly so I can count them at a glance... I'd have to go out of my way to not know how many I have.