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"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? "Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling?

02-15-2018 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuds38
What about "If you check, I check." Binding?
At least some rooms might treat the offer to check it down as collusion.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-15-2018 , 11:35 PM
What has not been said (but seems to be understood by most) is that for action to occur, that is to have a bet and a call, there has to be an understanding of what is bet. You cannot commit to call something you do not understand.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-16-2018 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen
I'm asking if I know the guy is always doing **** like this and I think his opponent is a casual rec that doesn't have the wherewithal to understand the nuance of what's happening. (talking about the rec that maybe in a heads up situation, his opponent bets out of turn into the rec and the rec doesn't realize that checking and then raising with the nuts is the better plan here, but instead bets into the villain and the villain folds because action changed. We all know plenty of players like this)
I would probably still wait unless maybe it is a particularly big pot. At least preemptively asking is maybe a bit soon, but if it goes bet-fold then you could ask if the Dealer and V don't seem concerned.

If a guy really had a reputation for it, I think it would be pretty reasonable to either privately tell the floor about the abuse, or just loudly call him out for it after the hand and try to embarrass him. But obviously that second option could go a lot of ways depending on personalities.

Well now that I think more it seems ok to ask right after he says it... in the same way that you should speak up if you see a string bet or if players are violating OPTAH, etc.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-16-2018 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
What has not been said (but seems to be understood by most) is that for action to occur, that is to have a bet and a call, there has to be an understanding of what is bet. You cannot commit to call something you do not understand.
I'm not sure I find this to be an issue here. It's not a misunderstanding. Saying I call whatever you bet seems to be pretty clearly understood by the speaker. As opposed say to if he just said “call” which could mean he thought there had been a bet.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-16-2018 , 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
I'm not sure I find this to be an issue here. It's not a misunderstanding. Saying I call whatever you bet seems to be pretty clearly understood by the speaker. As opposed say to if he just said “call” which could mean he thought there had been a bet.
When I say there has to be an understanding, there needs to be an amount agreed to and understood.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-16-2018 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
When I say there has to be an understanding, there needs to be an amount agreed to and understood.
If someone wants to deliberately restrict himself and give his opponent an advantage by agreeing to call any bet, in a headsup pot of a cash game, I see no reason to disallow it. It's very similar to someone showing his cards in a headsup pot. While I think it's almost always poor strategy, I think it should be allowed.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-16-2018 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
If someone wants to deliberately restrict himself and give his opponent an advantage by agreeing to call any bet, in a headsup pot of a cash game, I see no reason to disallow it. It's very similar to someone showing his cards in a headsup pot. While I think it's almost always poor strategy, I think it should be allowed.
I don't know if you have ever been to a fast food restaurant where they have computerized kiosks, but if not, they exist. And you're allowed to do stupid things like order a cheeseburger and then ask for no cheese, or hamburger hold the meat (and get a bun with ketchup).

It's tempting to shrug and say, "why the hell not, people can waste their money if they want." But when everyone does it, it's just annoying and inevitably slows down service because people who want to eat get slowed down by groups of teenagers going dude dude check this out.

So it is with these sorts of shenanigans. Whenever people are allowed to do stupid things, they do them out of curiosity / jackassery, but it's not novel and not funny to the people who just want to get on with the game. I'm totally fine with the people who are like "I have two pair, fives and fives" when they have quad fives, because quads are rare and if 10% of people who have quads say it, it doesn't add up to much. But if people are going to delay every showdown of pair vs pair or two pair vs one pair by a fraction of a second, it gets annoying very quickly.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
When I say there has to be an understanding, there needs to be an amount agreed to and understood.
So if you shut your eyes and turn the music up while your opponent acts, the floor shouldn’t hold you to a call if you announce “I call” after the other guy bet?
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
I don't know if you have ever been to a fast food restaurant where they have computerized kiosks, but if not, they exist. And you're allowed to do stupid things like order a cheeseburger and then ask for no cheese, or hamburger hold the meat (and get a bun with ketchup).

It's tempting to shrug and say, "why the hell not, people can waste their money if they want." But when everyone does it, it's just annoying and inevitably slows down service because people who want to eat get slowed down by groups of teenagers going dude dude check this out.

So it is with these sorts of shenanigans. Whenever people are allowed to do stupid things, they do them out of curiosity / jackassery, but it's not novel and not funny to the people who just want to get on with the game. I'm totally fine with the people who are like "I have two pair, fives and fives" when they have quad fives, because quads are rare and if 10% of people who have quads say it, it doesn't add up to much. But if people are going to delay every showdown of pair vs pair or two pair vs one pair by a fraction of a second, it gets annoying very quickly.
While I agree with some of your points, I don't think either the thing that happened in OP or showing your cards should necessarily slow down the game. In fact, saying "whatever you bet, I call", if consistently enforced, should actually speed up the game.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
When I say there has to be an understanding, there needs to be an amount agreed to and understood.
But I think we can say exists here. I call however much you are going to bet is an amount that can be agreed to and understood.

I'm okay with it not being binding. I just don't entirely agree with this reasoning.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
While I agree with some of your points, I don't think either the thing that happened in OP or showing your cards should necessarily slow down the game. In fact, saying "whatever you bet, I call", if consistently enforced, should actually speed up the game.
The very act of consistently enforcing it will slow down the game.

Unless you get every card room in the world to agree to do the same.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
The very act of consistently enforcing it will slow down the game.

Unless you get every card room in the world to agree to do the same.
Just how often do you think this is said?
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
The very act of consistently enforcing it will slow down the game.

Unless you get every card room in the world to agree to do the same.
Don't know why you think it would be slower than _not enforcing _ it, as in OP. The floor had to be called there.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
So if you shut your eyes and turn the music up while your opponent acts, the floor shouldn’t hold you to a call if you announce “I call” after the other guy bet?
No, they should show you where to cash out.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 07:59 PM
Is there are rule to look/listen to other players bets? Why shouldn’t you just be allowed to announce all-in no matter what happend in front of you in any given betting round in a No Limit game? You’re not required to look at your cards or the board, I don’t see any reason why you should be required to know how much somebody else bet.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-17-2018 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
Is there are rule to look/listen to other players bets? Why shouldn’t you just be allowed to announce all-in no matter what happend in front of you in any given betting round in a No Limit game? You’re not required to look at your cards or the board, I don’t see any reason why you should be required to know how much somebody else bet.
It is reasonable to assume that you know the amount when it is clear to anyone at the table. You can't agree to something that doesn't exist yet. If there is a clear misunderstanding at the table, you are not held responsible for that. If you are unable to follow/understand the action you are not permitted to play.
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote
02-18-2018 , 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR
It is reasonable to assume that you know the amount when it is clear to anyone at the table. You can't agree to something that doesn't exist yet. If there is a clear misunderstanding at the table, you are not held responsible for that. If you are unable to follow/understand the action you are not permitted to play.
But an undetermined amount can be clear. If a player is intentionally making this statement they understand the amount they are agreeing to call is not yet determined but within the range that the structure of the game permits..... in No Limit that ranges up to the amount of the opponents stack (or their own stack if they have less than that amount).
"Whatever you bet, I call."  Correct ruling? Quote

      
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