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Question when winning? Question when winning?

07-11-2021 , 07:47 PM
I have a question regarding cash wins. Lets say within the last 8 months I loss $12k playing poker. Then within the last month, I won $10k back. Do I have to claim that money as income if I am still down $2k in the last 9 months? I heard something about claiming loses but not sure how that works. Thanks.
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07-11-2021 , 08:30 PM
Depends the laws where you live.
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07-11-2021 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan
Depends the laws where you live.
California
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07-11-2021 , 11:24 PM
In california the law is that you have to keep studious records of your buyins/cashouts. In practice they probably won’t audit you. Honestly unless you are a professional or playing tourneys I wouldn’t worry about it. If you are playing tourneys, keep the receipts for your records.

The rule about buyins and cashouts is that they only count for the tax year where they happened. So if the 12k win happened last year and the 10k loss happened this year, technically you will be taxed on the 12k for the full amount. Of course how you file it in practice is between you and uncle sam.
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07-11-2021 , 11:53 PM
You want to read the forum/thread on taxes, here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...-poker-740589/

Short version - unless you are a professional gambler, you cannot just net your winnings and losses, though if you itemize your deductions and they are not capped or limited it may end up more or less the same:

Quote:
Q: Do I report and pay taxes on just my net winnings for the year?

A: No. You must keep track separately of each of your winning sessions and your losing sessions. The total of your winning sessions is reported as gambling income on your Form 1040. The total of your losing sessions, up to a maximum of your total winning sessions, can only be reported as an itemized deduction on your Schedule A as gambling losses. For the professional player, both figures are reported on a Schedule C Business Income and the net amount, including deductions for standard business expenses, is transferred to the Form 1040 as net business income. See below for more details about the definition of a session and who may file as a pro.
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07-12-2021 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by W0900418
I have a question regarding cash wins. Lets say within the last 8 months I loss $12k playing poker. Then within the last month, I won $10k back. Do I have to claim that money as income if I am still down $2k in the last 9 months? I heard something about claiming loses but not sure how that works. Thanks.
What income?
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07-12-2021 , 11:05 AM
Thanks for doing your due diligence on the tax situation. Unfortunately the posts are in line with my understanding of current tax law where winnings and losses are kept separate unless you are claiming to be a professional.

I believe there are provisions for income streams, even 'hobbies', that allow for only net earnings to be taxed. However I believe the IRS also limits you to 3 straight years of losses and you can't pick 'at your convenience' when you claim participation, it needs to be steady once you start it. You definitely should talk to a tax expert from that perspective.

Records are the key but when the Standard Deduction recently doubled it really put a crink in getting some extra deductions out of those losses. GL
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07-12-2021 , 06:10 PM
Consult an expert for your area.
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07-14-2021 , 02:16 AM
Not only can you deduct losses, but you can also deduct expenses relating to the activity of gambling, assuming you choose not to go with the standard deduction.
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07-14-2021 , 05:15 AM
^only up to the maximum amount of your winnings.
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07-14-2021 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble
Not only can you deduct losses, but you can also deduct expenses relating to the activity of gambling, assuming you choose not to go with the standard deduction.
Only if you file as a professional.
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07-14-2021 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble
Not only can you deduct losses, but you can also deduct expenses relating to the activity of gambling, assuming you choose not to go with the standard deduction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
Only if you file as a professional.
to wit:
Quote:
Q: Can I deduct poker-related expenses such as coaching fees, purchase of software, books, travel expenses for live games, etc.?

A: If you file as an amateur, you cannot deduct any costs associated with your poker play. Even drink purchases using chips at the table should technically be tracked by the player and added back in at the end of the session so that the winnings associated with the drink cost amount are accounted for. A possible but unsettled exception may be in-session expenses directly tied to the profit and loss of a single gambling session, such as ATM; if you need to pay a $5 fee to take out $500 from an ATM to rebuy within a session, it may be reasonable to count that as having invested $500 in the game to obtain a $495 stack. There is another possible theoretical exception that unavoidable fees directly associated with your gambling but not with a specific session (such as mandatory fees charged for online cashouts) could be deductible as hobby expenses for amateurs. However, as hobby expenses, they would only be deductible to the extent that they exceed 2% of your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI), which is the figure which includes the sum of your winning gambling sessions before your losing sessions are deducted; one would be highly unlikely to ever exceed this threshold.

If you file as a professional, you can deduct these expenses, along with some other poker-related expenses, under the rules for self-employed businesses. For discussion and examples of what expenses are allowed as write offs, see Pro poker write offs, Deducting meals from taxable income, Stout's Tips for Filing Taxes, and Taxation of Gambling: Professional Gambler Business Expenses.

A professional gambler with a Net Operating Loss (NOL) from business expenses can carry the loss back exactly two years (e.g. from 2014 to 2012) or carry it forward. To carry it forward, a tax election must be made on the timely filed tax return (including extensions).
This post was last updated 5+ years ago, so conceivably things have changed, but I don't think they have. With very limited exceptions, amateurs cannot deduct poker expenses.
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07-14-2021 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh
to wit:


This post was last updated 5+ years ago, so conceivably things have changed, but I don't think they have. With very limited exceptions, amateurs cannot deduct poker expenses.
This is still true IMO .. And if you are a Professional you 'can' take a loss and 'carry it forward' since you are treating your 'job' like a business .. and businesses are allowed to carry losses forward (for 3 years?) before they drop off the tax ledger.

And, consult an accountant or tax lawyer who has experience with professional gamblers (not just poker players) .. if you can. GL
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07-14-2021 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Only if you file as a professional.
No, anyone can claim gambling expenses.


https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips...axes/L4lQ3IAWt

Quote:
You can include in your gambling losses the actual cost of wagers plus other expenses connected to your gambling activity, including travel to and from a casino.
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07-14-2021 , 02:46 PM
Unfortunately, based on multiple conversations with actual CPAs, TurboTax is incorrect in this instance.
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07-14-2021 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
Unfortunately, based on multiple conversations with actual CPAs, TurboTax is incorrect in this instance.
Black Aces, ET al, are correct. Just asked my spouse who is both a practicing tax accountant and degen EV- slots gambler.
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07-14-2021 , 10:54 PM
Well thanks for the replies. I gave it back lol, I really thought I was the next poker pro lol.... it was fun...
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07-16-2021 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by W0900418
Well thanks for the replies. I gave it back lol, I really thought I was the next poker pro lol.... it was fun...
Technically I don't think you're off the hook. I believe you still have to report your gross winnings and can deduct gross losses if you itemize. This would be by "session."

Honestly I think you'd be an idiot though to do it the right way. IRS screws recreational gamblers. If you're net negative there's no evidence of unreported income because there wasn't any income. I'd be much more worried if I were depositing $5k into my bank account per month and reporting nothing.
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