I am mostly a limit player, but I've been trying my hand at $1/$1/$2 NLHE while waiting for other games. I saw something last week that I'd never seen before. This happened in a California card room.

Player A raises to $12 preflop. Player B calls. Everyone else folds. Before the dealer has a chance to spread the flop, player A says, "Wait, wait, wait. Put in $10 more and check it down?" Player B agrees. Both players put $10 more into the pot preflop, and there's no more action postflop; the dealer treats it as if one of them is all in.

Is this kind of negotiation legal and/or acceptable? The dealer didn't object, but I was surprised that it occurred and that the two players were allowed to put an additional $10 each into the pot after the preflop action was already done.

Pretty sure that would not be allowed in most places, and also unlikely the house would uphold the agreement if either decided he wanted to bet on a later street.

But if I were another player in the game I wouldn't complain about it unless it started happening often.

And also if there is any sort of bad beat or high hand promotion I would expect some sort of issue if they hit it.

Where I play that's clearly against the rules. So the dealer will tell them they can't do that. But what happens then is that on the flop player A would bet 10,player b call, and then check the turn and river as the dealer puts them out. So they end up doing it anyway, but the dealer hasn't gone along with it and he told them not to do it again. But you can't unring the bell on the original statement. A second offense would get a supervisor call

Standard LLSNL BS. When you play live, you occasionally see nonsense like this. Mostly just ignore it.

Some rooms allow a lot of latitude heads up in a cash game. Don't be too shocked to see stuff like this from time to time. Mostly, however, this is the kind of action you find in home games between friends.

End thread ..

Plenty of reg/reg soft play stuff 'everywhere', whether it's verbal or not. As long as it doesn't look like they are colluding to get others to fold it's just something that can (and does) happen. GL

Thanks for the replies.

I've seen soft play between regs in limit games, but it's usually an explicit or unspoken agreement to check it down once they get heads up.

I did not get the sense that these two players were friends, simply that one was afraid to play postflop and that the other was willing to go along even though he had position on his opponent.

California card room, so I assume the house is getting their cut regardless of what's in the pot. I can't see why it would be a big deal since both players are happy and the next hand starts quicker. Any jackpots would likely be negated though.

Can’t speak for northern cal but in LA, this happens all the time. Players generally run the show here unlike Vegas where the floor and dealers run the show

It’s kinda counterintuitive to tell the players that only implicit collusion is OK and that next time the first guy should cough twice before putting in his $10 to indicate his intention to check it down.

I see this at least once a day in socal

I see this every time I play at Lucky Chances

In most places, it isn't legal, but it is acceptable...unless someone objects, which happens onnly rarely.

For example, I was playing PLO at Aria in Vegas last week. Four players see a flop. Player A bets the pot on the flop for 165, leaving himself 20 behind. Player B folds, Player C calls 165, Player D folds. Before the dealer can burn and show the turn card, Player A asks Player C if he wants to just get the last 20 in so they can run the turn and river twice (if they waited to get the last 20 in on the turn they'd only get to run the river twice). Player C agrees, they both throw 20 more in the pot (this makes player A all-in) and the dealer runs the turn and river twice.

Pretty standard move in a home game, but I've never seen that happen in a casino. To be fair, I don't think anyone at the table would have complained about this in any way, but I don't think it's technically supposed to happen.

Agreed....honestly, the only negotiation I've ever truly seen shut down by a dealer is any agreement between players to give each other money back after the hand is over. This doesn't happen much, but I know in a 2-5 NLHE game one time another guy and I got effectively $1400 each in preflop (almost 3 buy-ins as it was a $500 cap at the time), both having aces. He wanted to chop the pot without a flop but the casino wouldn't allow that. Then he wanted me to agree that we'd give the money back to each other if one of us made a flush with one of our aces. The dealer shut that down too.

But that is or should be allowed everywhere. It was simply a dark turn bet and dark call. No real negotiation needed

A dark bet on the turn still constitutes turn action. Players need to be all-in before the turn in order to run it twice on turn and river.

Since they wanted to run it twice it made a difference in procedure. If it's a dark bet and call the next street isn't run twice.

Correct. That’s why they technically “got it in” on the flop so they could see two turns and two rivers. If they can’t run the turn twice too, someone could end up drawing dead on the turn and running the river twice might not matter.

They have not seen the turn so should be able to see it twice. At worst this is less out of the norm than allowing two rounds of betting on the flop which is the effect of your position. Or maybe we could call the flop the worlds slowest string bet. Regardless, prefer my spin over those two.

My position is that the money isn't in until the next street, not that they get two rounds of betting on one street. I was just pointing out why they want it not to be a dark bet and call

So they get it in on the turn but it isn't a dark turn bet yet we have not yet seen the card but your way it's ok to see to turns and mine it isn't. I know my dark bet and call was a small spin. But please slow down your tilt a whirl because your are making the whole room spin.

I didn't say it's not a dark turn bet. I'm saying the turn isn't getting run twice because they weren't all in before the turn. The fact that they bet dark doesn't change that. They can run the river twice.