Just happened, I’m in the game:

Guy announces pot on turn, dealer says that’s 1625, Asian lady calls, then someone says that’s not right, dealer counts the pot, turns out it’s way off, pot is actually 2345.

Asian lady was already hesitant to call the 1625, and now says don’t wanna call that, can I take it back. Whole table basically agreed, but floor was close by and dealer called him over for a ruling.

Result: she can surrender the 1625, or call the full amount.

Thoughts?

Fairly standard, but if the whole table actively agreed then I'd like for the floor to go along with the wishes of the table.

I would be more concerned about what the players in the hand think over the table. If heads up, the two players can decide.

Its standard but awful.

The problem is that what a Dealer says never counts. If you ask a dealer for a count of a bet and they get it wrong it doesn't matter. Its the actual bet size that matters. This is just a variation on that.

Personally if I were in the hand I would allow the woman to fold (assuming everyone with cards felt the same way). In just about every case it will be done if everyone in the hand agrees.

In tournaments when a SB puts out a chip to call and doesn't realize there has been a raise, the rules state that the chip must remain in the pot if they fold. However if i am in the hand I will always say that the SB can take back their bet (assuming everyone else still in the hand agrees - which they almost always do). Then the Dealer will actually sometimes toss the chip back to the SB and take their cards. And everyone is happier.

Yeah, that was my take as well as… while technically probably correct (the ruling), i like for the floor to be more tactful in a situation like that

On a side note:
Also destroyed the „vibe“ of the game, although it ran pretty big, everybody (including the losers) were having a good time up until then

here is the TDA rule:

Note that the phrasing here doesn't actually make technical english sense, and is a little vague about it being about an incorrect amount being put out when a player bets "pot". I think it should probably say "...underbets or overbets a 'pot' bet based on an inaccurate count".

Neither RP-12 (announcing the size of non-allin bets) nor the illustration addendum (just an example of under and over betting, and substantial action) really add anything relevant.

Either way, there has been no substantial action after the incorrectly sized pot bet was made (unless some intervening folds were skipped for brevity), so it should be corrected up, and then the calling player should be held to the correct size.

Having said that, the announced pot amount was way way off, and the second player matched the size that was announced and put out. It's unlike a case where a player gets an incorrect count of bet chips. And while both players probably should have known the pot size was wrong, neither apparently did. I would be totally fine with the floor using rule 1 to say play on.

Is it a tournament?

In a live game I think "action offered, action accepted" on the 1625 is fair.

Pot limit is the one place where we're expected to trust the dealer on amount.

While fairly standard the floor was actually more lenient than the rule. Per rule if she says call or silently pushes out under call amount she would be held to full call. You don’t punish bettor for the dealer error. The word call has certain magic.

What the dealer announced was off by about 50 percent. I’d say that was a gross misunderstanding of what the bet to her was. If it’s just the two of them and there hasn’t been a showdown yet I’d say she should have the chance to reconsider her action. And it sounds like the players in the hand were ok with just going with the 1625 so why does there have to be a different ruling. I agree it’s action offered and accepted. Same with if someone over bets the pot and someone calls. They don’t later get to correct it down to the lower pot size.

Edit to add that obviously the dealer needs to do a better job and be much more careful because that is a pretty bad mistake. If you’re ever not sure about what it is for some four figure amount, how hard is it to count the pot?

Please explain how you would be punishing the bettor? There is no harm. Gross misunderstanding of the action.

WTF are the players paying rake for?

But you don't mind punishing the caller?

I very rarely play PLO, but I've always thought this kind of thing seemed very off. You can't trust the dealer when he tells you how much the bet is, but you have to trust him when you actually make the call? Why should his second count be trusted more than his first? Maybe the first count was correct and the second count was wrong.

If the answer is that the first count wasn't really a count, but a guess, then you should be able to ask for an actual count, unless they're going to allow the player to stack the chips in the pot and count them himself. A player should be able to know exactly how much is bet before calling that bet, shouldn't he?

I think you can ask for an actual count, which it seems the lady didn’t do in OP. Or the pot to be spread so you can count it.

But the number given sounds like an actual count, not an estimate. Who would give $1625 as an estimate instead of $1600?

In my experience, just from reading these forums and from irl, "gross misunderstanding" has never meant the size of the pot and has always meant the amount of action one is facing. It just so happens that they are one and the same here. But we see the same in NL games and dealers misstating the size of all-in bets, and the refrain is that the calling player is ultimately responsible for knowing the action she is facing.

If y'all are saying that Asian lady is not responsible for recognizing a 44% difference between the declared pot-bet size and the actual pot size, then hoo! I don't know if I agree. But I am interested to know how low your threshold is.

You think that she should be able to estimate the size of the pot better than the dealer can?

How can you be responsible for knowing the amount that is bet when you aren't allowed to count the bet (or the pot)?

Would your answer be different if the player was near blind? I have played with people who can only see well enough to see their own chips and holes cards, needing to have the board cards read to them.

The harm is the bettor bet the larger amount. Forcing the smaller reduces his win or fold equity

Caller can ask for actual pot count, thinks its wrong a recount, doesn’t believe that can ask for the floor to verify. Can ask it to be spread or even stacked to verify.

It sucks but the rule is clear, actual chips matter. If you say call, you are calling the actual bet not what dealer said

I think it sucks for caller but be has recourse. He can ask for recount to verify. He can ask for pot to be stacked so he can count. He can request the floor verify the count.

It still sucks but the rule is simple. Actual chips matter over what dealer says

I have assumed the $1625 was the running count the dealer was keeping. If it was a physical count the dealer the dealer needs to be trained.

I also have less sympathy for caller if she watched a count and did not catch lt was wrong by 40%+.

OK - I didn't realize you could ask for the dealer to physically count the pot before acting. Is that generally the case at all rooms?

What would be the harm in letting the caller take back the call and decide what to do based on the correct amount?

Well, that’s what the whole table basically agreed on, but the dealer called the floor for no reason and he then effed it up

Other player should offer the asian lady to fold and give her the $1625 back. While the floor is still at the table to make sure he understands what people think of his ruling.

Stuff like that makes people who can't or don't want to keep a running count of the pot question if they should play in that game.

Yep, agreed.
And, besides for this, the whole „vibe“ of the game was destroyed, changed after that.
Before even people who were losing were having a good time …

Floor messed it all up

Ps: on a side note:
They just hate the 5card plo there, reason being, some regs with good connections to the house are lobbying hard against it, fear it takes players away from the regular 5-5 rock game.

Game was running the other night, late, like 4.30am ish, playing upstairs on table 6, very comfy.
There was 1 other game in that area, and may be 2-3 other games on the ground level.
Now floor comes over to tell us that he will have to move our game to the ground floor bc of a tournament that will start later.
Me: what time is that?
Him: noon
Me: so in like 8 hours?
Him: yes
Me: just so you know, you might break the game by doing that.
(2 guys already said that they didn’t wanna move, you often loose players doing that, and we were playing short handed
Him: yeah, but we have our regulations, need to prepare for the tourney bla bla …

Needless to say, the other game upstairs didn’t have to move, and our game broke as predicted 😡

It has me wondering how many people prefer PL over NL for the sole reason that they don't have to keep track of the pot size. It has to be a non-zero number.

Non-zero, yes, but also very small.
Any halfway decent plo player knows the pot size… and the others usually don’t last very long