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Old 07-19-2018, 01:43 PM   #1
bolt2112
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On pointing your finger at people

Also, don't point at anyone or anything. This is something they teach you in orientation. Where's table 11? It's right over there, Ma'am (gesturing over towards table 11 with an open hand).
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:48 PM   #2
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

They teach you not to point, but not to not use Ma'am?
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #3
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by bolt2112 View Post
Also, don't point at anyone or anything. This is something they teach you in orientation. Where's table 11? It's right over there, Ma'am (gesturing over towards table 11 with an open hand).
This is ridiculous. What is offensive about pointing to a table?
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:55 PM   #4
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Also, don't point at anyone or anything. This is something they teach you in orientation. Where's table 11? It's right over there, Ma'am (gesturing over towards table 11 with an open hand).
Even at a young age I knew this, Many years ago when I was 17 with fake ID in AC, was about to eat at a decent restaurant and the maitre d was talking to someone and pointed his arm right in front of my face, I gave him the dirtiest look and he immediately said "Sorry for pointing Sir". lol
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:56 PM   #5
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Talking Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
They teach you not to point, but not to not use Ma'am?
Although Miami isn't exactly the South, it isn't 100% not the South either. Why would a cardroom there train staff not to use the standard term of respect toward an adult woman in the Southeastern United States?

Last edited by AKQJ10; 07-19-2018 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:00 PM   #6
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Even at a young age I knew this, Many years ago when I was 17 with fake ID in AC, was about to eat at a decent restaurant and the maitre d was talking to someone and pointed his arm right in front of my face, I gave him the dirtiest look and he immediately said "Sorry for pointing Sir". lol
The problem here was his arm being close to your face, not his extended finger.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:24 PM   #7
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Although Miami isn't exactly the South, it isn't 100% not the South either. Why would a cardroom there train staff not to use the standard term of respect toward an adult woman in the Southeastern United States?
Maybe it's a regional thing. I thought Ma'am was always considered to be for "older" women, and so Sir and Miss were the only ones I used in customer service jobs.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:45 PM   #8
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Sir and Ma'am are standard here. And in a service job you should never point with a single finger, especially at a person.

Close your eyes and try to conjure the image of a flight attendant, before takeoff, showing where the exits to the plane are. Always indicating with an open hand, never pointing with a single finger.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:14 PM   #9
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Sir and Ma'am are standard here. And in a service job you should never point with a single finger, especially at a person.

Close your eyes and try to conjure the image of a flight attendant, before takeoff, showing where the exits to the plane are. Always indicating with an open hand, never pointing with a single finger.
I always thought the way flight attendants do that was stupid and made it unclear where the exits were. But of course someone's ridiculous idea of etiquette is much more important than actual effective safety procedures.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:41 PM   #10
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

First off, if you can't find the exit on an airplane, you probably shouldn't be out on your own without supervision. And I fail to see how extending a full arm, with all of your fingers pointing in the same direction is at all ambiguous.

Finally, if you point your finger at me I'm probably going to be offended unless you're smiling and saying "You da man!"

Pointing at me and saying "checkorbet" is definitely offensive.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:57 PM   #11
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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First off, if you can't find the exit on an airplane, you probably shouldn't be out on your own without supervision. And I fail to see how extending a full arm, with all of your fingers pointing in the same direction is at all ambiguous.
And I fail to see how extending one finger towards a poker table or an airplane exit is at all offensive.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:04 PM   #12
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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And I fail to see how extending one finger towards a poker table or an airplane exit is at all offensive.
I agree with you. But if you're in the habit of not pointing a single finger then you don't have to worry about the guy sitting at that table wondering why you're pointing at him.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:23 PM   #13
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Miss is light years better than Ma'am.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:48 PM   #14
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I've had plenty of middle-aged to older women start gushing when I call them miss, saying they haven't been called miss in years. That alone makes it seem like common sense to me not to call a woman ma'am, but I'm glad so many people still do it because that makes me stand out
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #15
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Maybe it's a regional thing. I thought Ma'am was always considered to be for "older" women, and so Sir and Miss were the only ones I used in customer service jobs.
This.

Sir. Miss.
Young sir. Young miss. (When under 12 or so.)


The only way I ever addressed people. Everyone loved it. Esp any woman over 30.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:30 PM   #16
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Maybe it's a regional thing. I thought Ma'am was always considered to be for "older" women, and so Sir and Miss were the only ones I used in customer service jobs.
No idea in 2018, but through the 1980s and probably 1990s it was extremely standard for parents to teach their kids to answer questions, including to their parents, as "Yes, Sir," and "Yes, Ma'am." My parents never really cared but in some circles I suspect this was considered important to demonstrate to the other adults that the kids were well-disciplined, not allowed to run wild, etc.

It's all about the honor culture, y'all.

(Note that most of my adult life has been outside the South. I enjoy critiquing it but I'll probably get mad with you if you critique it.)

In our next episode: "I ordered barbeque while visiting in Tunica, but instead of the flame-grilled hamburger or hot dog I expected, I got some kind of roasted pork dish that's foreign to me."
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:32 AM   #17
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
No idea in 2018, but through the 1980s and probably 1990s it was extremely standard for parents to teach their kids to answer questions, including to their parents, as "Yes, Sir," and "Yes, Ma'am." My parents never really cared but in some circles I suspect this was considered important to demonstrate to the other adults that the kids were well-disciplined, not allowed to run wild, etc.

It's all about the honor culture, y'all.
Born in 95, parents were young and hated sir/ma'am so we were raised to just say "Yes, mom" or "Yes, dad." but tone mattered more than content. I remember all the cool parents were the ones who didn't make you call them Mr./Mrs. whatever and instead let you go by first names. interesting how the culture was changing at this time to be a lot less formal. sorry to continue derail
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:01 AM   #18
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Originally Posted by bolt2112 View Post
Sir and Ma'am are standard here. And in a service job you should never point with a single finger, especially at a person.

Close your eyes and try to conjure the image of a flight attendant, before takeoff, showing where the exits to the plane are. Always indicating with an open hand, never pointing with a single finger.
Yeah, oh my god the horror of an extended finger! Imagine seeing a finger extended anywhere near you, you would never recover! You would probably have to kill yourself from the damages you received from seeing that extended finger! I would rather lose both my legs and both my arms than having someone extend a finger in my near vicinity!

Jesus christ. It's a ****ing finger. If you actually care about whether someone points with a finger or with an open hand, you must be a horribly boring person.

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Pointing at me and saying "checkorbet" is definitely offensive.
GTFO. You must find literally everything offensive.
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:40 AM   #19
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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Yeah, oh my god the horror of an extended finger! Imagine seeing a finger extended anywhere near you, you would never recover! You would probably have to kill yourself from the damages you received from seeing that extended finger! I would rather lose both my legs and both my arms than having someone extend a finger in my near vicinity!

Jesus christ. It's a ****ing finger. If you actually care about whether someone points with a finger or with an open hand, you must be a horribly boring person.



GTFO. You must find literally everything offensive.

Well, your post is offensive, but we'll get to that later.

We're talking about manners here. And some of us were raised in a way that how we act towards others matters, beyond just whether we intentionally cause them harm. I mean, we can all agree that we shouldn't shoot other people, or cut them with knives, or punch them. What about other things that don't cause physical injury?

By the standards of your post, is everything else okay?

If I call someone a "racially offensive" word that's cool, isn't it? "Oh my god, the horror of being called a word! I should just kill myself!" Right?

What if I spit on someone? It's not like I'm carrying some disease. I mean, I kiss my girlfriend and she likes it. And I've probably shared a drink from the same glass or bottle with a friend at some point. They didn't mind. So let's add that to the list. "Oh my god, the horror of someone else's saliva on my face! I should just kill myself!"

What if a customer asks me a stupid question and I just look at them and say, "You're an idiot" as I dramatically roll my eyes. Is that offensive?

What if I simply raise my voice several octaves when I address a player? "HEY BUDDY, IT'S ON YOU! CHECK OR BET" No harm there, right?

Would any of these things offend you? Or if "offend" is too strong a word, would they rub you the wrong way? If so, what's the difference between those and someone pointing their finger in your face, other than degrees of offensiveness?
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:47 AM   #20
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Calling someone racially offensive words or spitting on someone are both purposely done to cause some sort of harm to other people. Pointing at someone is hardly ever done with malicious intent, it's done as an indicator with no further thoughts put into it, which is why it's stupid that some people have decided that pointing is offensive for no rational reason at all.
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:55 AM   #21
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Okay, so there's a line in there somewhere. We're getting somewhere. Now I've got a dealer who sticks his fat fingers in my face every time it's on me, plus he yells at me, but he seems to be doing the same thing with the rest of the players, so it's nothing personal, and it's not like he's hurting me or doing anything intentionally aggressive. So I'm not going to be offended.

Now he deals a hand, and I make a stupid bluff and get called, but the dealer bails me out with runner-runner for a backdoor flush and I win a huge pot. And I decide to tip the dealer nicely. But he doesn't say anything. He doesn't give me a smile and a nod. Doesn't even make eye-contact with me. He just grabs my generous tip and sticks it in his box. Is this acceptable behavior for a dealer?
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #22
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

And for the record, calling someone a racially offensive word is not necessarily meant in an offensive or harmful way. A foreign player might not know that it's culturally unacceptable to use certain words to identify someone of a certain race. In Miami, for instance, it's common for Latino players to call an Asian person "Chino" or "Chinita". If someone is of Vietnamese descent and some random player is calling him "Chino" would he be offended? Maybe.

How about the older guy who regularly uses words like "sweetheart" or "honey" to address women? I mean, that probably wasn't considered to be offensive back in the 1950's, so why should it be considered to be offensive now?
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:35 PM   #23
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else to be offended by it. There are definitely people who have a visceral reaction to someone pointing at them. I don't know if it's cultural or where it comes from but it happens. Maybe they don't even notice most of the time but you catch them when they're already 95% on tilt and it can push them over the edge. That's why we're taught not to do it.

If you know something offends some people and you aren't gaining anything by doing it, why not just find another way?
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:02 PM   #24
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I don't see how pointing with your entire hand instead of a finger would be less likely to offend someone if they're in the mood to be offended...
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:16 PM   #25
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Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

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I don't see how pointing with your entire hand instead of a finger would be less likely to offend someone if they're in the mood to be offended...
It's fine that you don't see it. You don't have to see it. That's not the point. Multiple reasonable members of the community are telling you that a lot of people find it offensive. Whether you choose to respect those people's preferences is up to you.
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