I just think if they're getting offended, it's because they think they are being pointed out, not that the actual extended finger is the problem.

I don't have to choose because I'm not directing people.

Multiple reasonable members of the community are offering alternatives to pointing that are not offensive. So it is the actual extended finger.

You are making the choice to believe that no alternative would be less likely to offend.

Did anyone actually say they would be offended by a finger but not by a hand pointing at them? If so, I missed it.

This is pretty silly.

You are not offended by a pointed finger in your face, that's fine. Many people are.

I would not like a finger or an open hand stuck in my face. That's not what's being discussed. We're talking about someone across the room being offended by being pointed at. I think he's just as likely to be offended by thinking he is being pointed out by an open hand. But if anyone here says that he is offended by the first but not the second I'd be happy to read that and find out why he feels differently about the two.

No, we're not.

Well, I certainly was. Some people were saying it is never ok to use your finger to point, even if your hand is not near anyone else.

So this means you think it is ok to stick your open hand right into someone's face while pointing something out? If you don't think that's ok, then it's not the finger that is the problem.

So you think those ladies would have been fine with an open hand or a fist in their face?

No, I think it's an amusing, and on-topic video which made me chuckle, given the context of the conversation we've been having.

And I still think that an open hand is more polite than a pointed finger when a service industry professional is dealing with customers, many of whom are strangers.

I personally don't care if someone flips me the bird, but I know other people may be offended by it. I also don't really care too much if people verbally assault me. Don't lay your hands on me and don't impede me and I'm okay with a lot of things. I can just ignore them.

You may say, "but it's about intent", so I'll use another example. I also know that the "OK!" gesture or a thumbs up can mean different things around the world, so I try not to use them around people I'm not familiar with.

Maybe there is a scale from 0-100 on the negativity scale of people's reactions to a finger being pointed at them. You're at a zero, and depending on the situation, some people may react very high on that negative scale. I'd imagine even the people saying "It's offensive" aren't saying it's the same as a black man being called the N word, but it's on the scale for them and even if it's in the 10-20 range, I can be a decent human being and just NOT point at people.


You can choose not to comply. That's your right. But you can't claim ignorance at this point. You've been taught.

There are lots of other things I could do or not do that I'm sure offend more people than pointing. My disbelief in God offends far more people I'm sure, but I don't intend to change that.

For you guys in customer service jobs who have to go out of your way to avoid doing anything to offend, I get it. But if I am ever pointing, it is because I am being a decent human being by trying to give assistance to someone looking for help; if someone else somehow takes offense, that's his problem. I really just don't care if I offend idiots.

For the record, the number of rational reasons given for why a pointed finger is offensive is still at 0. Nobody has yet to give any explanation. But then again that's expected, because there literally is not a single rational reason why it would be offensive.

When somebody points their finger at me , regardless of intent or situation, it gets my attention first and quickly makes me feel a tad uncomfortable for some reason. It does not make me angry or intimidated for someone to do it. I don't know why and maybe it's just personal with me. Maybe some of us are just adverse to be singled out like that. Others are not I guess.

Ma'am is fine if you're young. I've always used ma'am and it's always been fine until a week or two ago.

Me: "Excuse me ma'am, are you in line?"

Late 20s Early 30s Woman: "Are you calling me ma'am? Do I look old enough for you to ma'am me? Jesus Christ! Who even uses ma'am any more?"

Me: "I do ..."

(Mentally runs through about 10 different words to use instead)

Me: "... ma'am."

My wife who is from the South (and in her mid twenties) answers “yes/no Ma’am” to every adult female and calls them “Miss first name” no matter their age.

As far as the finger pointing, apparently that’s a no-no in the South, but I had no idea people in other parts of the country really cared about it.

I'll give you a rational reason for why it's offensive to point an index finger at someone when you give me a rational reason for why it's offensive to flip the bird at someone.

It's a cultural thing. Who knows where or why these things get started?

So to be clear in my mind bolt you are saying that if you are in seat 7....when dealer points..... he is now "sticking his fat finger in my face" ??? (From 5 feet away......unlike in the LOLvideoscreamingbunchofhormones where the finger IS in the face imo)

So to be clear, Spew, it's not okay for a dealer to point his finger at you if you're in seat 5, but it is okay for him to point his finger at you if you're in seat 7?

And it's not okay to point a finger at someone who comes from a culture where finger pointing is considered rude, but it is okay to point a finger at someone from a culture where it's a non-issue?

Hey, I've got an idea... how about if we train all of our casino staff to just not point their fingers at all?

I don't think anybody ever claimed there was one. All of the people who get offended by this are reacting emotionally, not rationally. This is how the majority of people in society act. Some people are conditioned to think that finger pointing is offensive, so they get offended. Perhaps if we stopped teaching that it is offensive, it would start to go away?

Bolt, there is a very clear difference between finger pointing and flipping the bird. Finger pointing is conveying information, while flipping the bird is conveying ill will, sometimes with an implied threat of violence. Is that a rational?

Personally I don't do much finger pointing. If I did and somebody got offended by it that might be a good sign that I don't need to interact with such a person anymore.

So this is the kind of "discussion" that goes on in that thread this was spun off from.

It would be great if it was left there.

Because the bird has the meaning of "F you", which is not a a nice thing to say.

Pointing has the meaning of "over there" or "that person", which are perfectly fine things to say.

This is a really well written and well thought out post.So let's go back to the beginning of the thread and limit this to service industry workers and finger pointing.

Intention is irrelevant.

Yes, it's worse to flip the bird, or threaten someone than to point a finger. But we only care about the customer's reaction and not the dealer's intent. If the customer feels offended by my finger pointing then that's something for the casino to be concerned about.

I once playfully teased a player in an entirely G rated fashion. He decided that I was picking on him and I ended up with a write up in the manager's office. Was he am over sensitive snowflake? Probably. Was my intent unfriendly or hostile? Nit at all. But he's a customer and I'm a service worker.

If some number of customers don't appreciate pointing then why would any casino ever ask its employees to try to use their own judgment about pointing rather than to just suggest a blanket alternative such as an open hand?

We need a Pointing CONTAINMENT Thread.

When it comes to etiquette, some things started so long ago or for such an obscure reason, that it'd be hard to find out the WHY behind so many things we take for granted. There are some authorities on etiquette like Miss Manners if you're 100 years old, but for the most part these things are handed down through generations. You simply can't drill down and constantly ask "why" or just assume it's not a thing if you haven't heard about it. No one cares if you have a great reason why it's "stupid."

Pointing is considered rude in many circles and cultures, not just in the south or in high society. For example: I grew up in a bad neighborhood in the 80's and 90's and I certainly wouldn't go around pointing at people there either unless it was purposely aggressive. The drug dealer down the block thinks you're pointing at him instead of the thing near him, and you're likely in for an unpleasant next few moments.

If you don't know this piece of etiquette or disagree with it, it doesn't make it any less true. If your job is to milk people's expendable income from them, it behooves you to take the least offensive line possible with them. (until tilting them is the better path)