Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries

08-10-2021 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn
Oh **** I had never actually looked at hotel prices for this weekend. $500 in the shitty Harrahs hotel and ~$200 elsewhere in Cherokee.

I had planned on staying a couple nights but maybe I just do the 90min commute back and forth from TN. Theres also Maggie Valley about 30min east and those rooms are $100-150, thats probably what I end up doing.
Yeah buddy---those prices are a bit steep imo. The $100-$150 a night range is much more manageable for the WSOP week. But Maggie Valley is on the other side of the mountain and a solid 30 minutes from Harrahs. Driving up and over and around that mountain on minimal sleep at night is a bit sketchy imo. I would say you are better off commuting the 90 minutes back to Tennessee!
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-10-2021 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn
I add my name to the list of people who say "dont do it". At least not full time professionally. Find yourself a flexible job that provides living expenses then you can play as a serious hobby (or investment if you are a winner)

Its pretty hard to make enough at 2/5 to live on AND grow your bankroll to play 5/10 and higher. At some point poker will be a grind just like any other job and you have to force yourself to go play even if you dont want to. And those are the sessions where you will be tilted and play bad or you wont be a focused on the game as you should be.

Travelling is expensive. Especially travelling alone. I did it for about 18 months. It was at least $50k for a year of AirBnbs, gas, food, plus my other bills. I could have done it cheaper tho, I bought my car a couple years before this and it takes Premium, so that def added up. Should have had a 4 cylinder Camry or something like that.

Personally, I prefer my daily grind to have guaranteed income, and health insurance attached with it. But I was also lucky enough to find a job where I can take off a few weeks per year, plus some long weekends to play poker.
Appreciate the feedback. Finding a flexible job could certainly be an option down the road if this current situation doesn't pan out.

I have been running some numbers/tinkering with various scenarios. I think playing anything below 2/5 (except maybe the 1/3 game at MGM National Harbor) isn't worth it. Assume I am a winning player at 2/5 and make 5BB's/hr...that's $25 an hour. Which is quite modest. But would definitely be enough to cover my travel expenses and slowly grow my bankroll. I did not mention in the original post, but my wife and I have agreed for 50% of my lodging to come out of our "life roll" and all of the food expenses (as I would have to eat at home anyway---albeit, at home I would definitely eat a bit cheaper). SO that means that means that my poker roll will need to cover gas and 50% of lodging. Which is quite nice (my wife is the sh*t).

I anticipate the most difficult thing with my situation is being 100% focused the entire time while playing which will be close to impossible. It's tough to drive to a casino and play poker for a week straight and be at my best. Especially considering I will usually be alone and the whole reason for my trip is to play poker....figuring out how to do this at a high level will be critical.

Not sure how much you have read, but I am covered under my wife's health insurance and do a little side hustling when I am home not playing poker...as well as we have my wife's solid income to cover most bills and a large portion of retirement contributions.

Thanks again!
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-10-2021 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmr
I think you have the most important things already covered: a wife with a job, a house, and health insurance, and no kids depending on you. Given those things in place, I don't think you can go too far wrong by giving it a shot. So go for it!

Does that mean that I think you will succeed? No. But I'd be happy for you if you did!

Personally I am a little older and a little more well established than you are, and I can't imagine playing 1/3 or 2/5 full time. It would have to be 5/10+ for me. But that's just me. Maybe you can enjoy a career as a poker player in which you earn very little money.

Also, I think you are 100% wasting your time watching poker vloggers if you are trying to learn how to be a successful full time poker player. That stuff is entertainment (for some people) and nothing more.

I guess I agree with most people saying "don't do it" but definitely with a pinch of "you have nothing to lose (except money)" thrown in with it. So if you are dreaming of doing it, burning to do it, and even your not great 10 month past attempt didn't cool you on the idea, you might just as well go for it and see how it goes.

It really is too bad you can't find some local games, but flying somewhere for a week to play cards isn't the worst thing in the world, it just adds a lot of expenses which will be very hard to overcome at the bottom stakes.
Haha! Appreciate it my friend.

Indeed. I feel like I have MOST of my sh*t together!

I think the long term goal here is to consistently play 5/10 and above. But I don't see that happening for a solid 12-18 months. Perhaps sporadic shot taking when I am on my game and it makes sense...but for now I think there is enough money to be made at the 2/5 level to suffice for me (for now). I would be thrilled to be able to obtain a $30/hr+ win rate at 2/5 over the course of year. My wife and I are very modest people and it doesn't take a ton to make us happy nor do we need much in order to be satisfied when it comes to material items, etc.

Noted on the poker vlogger comment. I agree that the majority of it is strictly entertainment. I generally agree with your sentiment. I do think that some of the guys are very good players and there can be value extracted from listening to some of their hand breakdowns. I enjoy watching the poker vlogs because it helps "put me in the poker mindset" and sprinkles in some education as well.

Indeed. It is unfortunate that I have no current access to Raleigh home games (if you run a Raleigh home game and are reading this.....message me! ). I am 100% giving it another shot, thrilled to have started off on a good note. Looking to squeeze in another 3 night run at the end of August/early September as my September is very booked as is my early October. Hoping for the best and going to continue to put in some work off the felts in order to try and get a little bit better!

Thanks for the message. Feel free to drop anymore nuggets of wisdom if you have them. Cheers!
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-10-2021 , 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Yeah buddy---those prices are a bit steep imo. The $100-$150 a night range is much more manageable for the WSOP week. But Maggie Valley is on the other side of the mountain and a solid 30 minutes from Harrahs. Driving up and over and around that mountain on minimal sleep at night is a bit sketchy imo. I would say you are better off commuting the 90 minutes back to Tennessee!
I still go thru Maggie Valley to get on I40. But yea $130 bucks to save two hours on driving prob isn't worth it.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-11-2021 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn
I still go thru Maggie Valley to get on I40. But yea $130 bucks to save two hours on driving prob isn't worth it.
Exactly, I figure the cost of driving a car is somewhere in the $25-$50 range per hr, depending on the vehicle. That is all in including cost of gas, maintenance, insurance, depreciation, etc..
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-12-2021 , 09:24 AM
I registered an account just to tell you to not do this plan.

1) You live in the worst possible state for this plan. It is not sustainable to think that your winnings at poker minus your losses and your huge travel/lodging expenses will add up to anything that makes this worthwhile.

2) Given the fact that your wife is supporting you with this crazy (bad) idea because she can tell how important it is to you, I would say you already have a pretty great situation in life. I wish my wife supported every one of my ideas no matter how bad they were! Cherish her and don't make her spend half of the month without your company, especially when a good fraction of those trips will lose money for your family.

3) Get a decent career instead. Maybe do a bootcamp for programming / web development like flatiron school or app academy and then get a job that pays $80k/year. (Will be a bit hard to get a company to take a chance on you without a strong technical background before this training, though).

4) Treat poker as a hobby and play a few weekends at the casinos. Maybe register an ACR account and fund it with bitcoin so you can play online despite not being one of the states that has regulated online poker.

In conclusion, don't do this. But if you do, post your results here because I'm curious to see if you make money given all your expenses and if your wife gets sick of it.

PS You probably should have kids with a wife that is as cool as yours is.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-13-2021 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacan
I registered an account just to tell you to not do this plan.

1) You live in the worst possible state for this plan. It is not sustainable to think that your winnings at poker minus your losses and your huge travel/lodging expenses will add up to anything that makes this worthwhile.

2) Given the fact that your wife is supporting you with this crazy (bad) idea because she can tell how important it is to you, I would say you already have a pretty great situation in life. I wish my wife supported every one of my ideas no matter how bad they were! Cherish her and don't make her spend half of the month without your company, especially when a good fraction of those trips will lose money for your family.

3) Get a decent career instead. Maybe do a bootcamp for programming / web development like flatiron school or app academy and then get a job that pays $80k/year. (Will be a bit hard to get a company to take a chance on you without a strong technical background before this training, though).

4) Treat poker as a hobby and play a few weekends at the casinos. Maybe register an ACR account and fund it with bitcoin so you can play online despite not being one of the states that has regulated online poker.

In conclusion, don't do this. But if you do, post your results here because I'm curious to see if you make money given all your expenses and if your wife gets sick of it.

PS You probably should have kids with a wife that is as cool as yours is.
I appreciate your "subtle concern" !

1) I agree. North Carolina has to be one of the worst states in the country to try to make this happen. Time will tell if I am able to earn enough to make it worthwhile.

2) 100%. My situation in life is really good. My wife is extremely supportive. She and I work tirelessly to help one another succeed and achieve our personal goals all while working to achieve joint goals that we have set together. It's an interesting dynamic that requires great understanding and lots of "give and take". But honestly, EVERY decision that we make, it's made together. No one is ever in the dark about anything. You are right. My wife does want my company 100% of the time. So being gone for lengthy stretches isn't ideal. However, she understands that it's part of the "give" on her end for this specific scenario. The losing of the money part isn't a huge concern. More of a annoyance when it happens. BUT....the distance and time apart from each other would most likely be the demise of this dream of mine. For now, we seem to have a plan in place to at least give it a shot. And if it's not meant to be right now, so be it. I will survive and adjust.

3) Thank you for the suggestions. I appreciate it (seriously). But in all honesty, those suggestions would not work for me. I just can't sit in front of a computer for 40 hours a week, have an existence where I know M-F 8-5 for the next decade+ I will be living the same structured life. The thought of that simply crushes my soul. I worked as an account manager for a fire protection company for 6 months a couple years ago...it was absolutely brutal. The environment, the tasks, the office politics, the disingenuous nature of it all, the lack of not seeing anything actually get accomplished. I have WAY TOO MUCH energy to sit there sending emails, fiddling on Excel, and "jumping on calls" all day (no offense to anyone who does this type of work. My wife works in this arena and I have so much respect for all of y'all who do this! Funny enough, my wife thrives in that setting...) My restaurant and retail type backgrounds suit my personality the best and I am able to earn decent income through those avenues if necessary.

4) Great ideas if plan A doesn't pan out.

You bet. I will be 100% transparent regarding my poker adventure. I will post results and brief trip reports right here in this thread.

Haha! You're probably right. My wife is super awesome. But the no kids thing is a joint decision (she probably actually doesn't want them more than I do!). But you never know, things could change in the next couple years...

I appreciate your honesty, concern, feedback, advice, and time! Regardless of what happens, all will be okay. It always is. I'm giving it a shot, but with realistic expectations and an acute understanding of "when to pull the plug" if need be.

Happy Friday!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-15-2021 , 10:33 AM
Just scheduled a little 3 night/4 day trip week after next to Cherokee to get in a few more hours. Going to be grinding Instacart hard to earn a few more buck and doing some studying this week in preparation. Hopefully I can continue to build some momentum.

Hope you guys are having a great weekend!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-15-2021 , 08:51 PM
I love threads like this.

You seem to have a solid plan--critically, including exit criteria and a viable exit plan--so you should be fine. Some random points, might already be covered:
  • No one can tell you bankroll needs until we have at least a rough estimate of winrate (and stdev and acceptable risk of ruin). Even if you're winning, it could be winning 0.01 BB/hr or 8 BB/hr, with a huge difference in those two bankrolls (holding stdev and RoR constant).
  • Absolutely set aside some of your "budget" (to become a bankroll) on training. You might find a few hours of 1:1 or group coaching helpful. At the least, I know of at least one training site with a pretty cheap entry level offering that gives you everything you need to beat most live $2-5 and then some.

    Good coaching or at least good online training frees you up to target the stakes you want to be at (see below) without constantly second-guessing whether you're good enough.
  • Read Miller's The Course. OK, so apparently you have. Reread it.

    By now you should understand the nuances of something you wrote:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ad1260
    . I didn't play enough at night and often times I would play on Friday but leave town on Saturday morning, missing prime money making opportunities. I would definitely play too much during the day when the games were littered with OMC types.
    OMC types are some of the most predictably exploitable opponents. You're not trying for $1500 2-5 pots with your sets, although some of them will hang onto those aces once they finally get 'em; you're trying to build a lot of $200 or $300 pots and barrel intelligently to take them down when no one wants to play for stacks.

    To be sure, your hourly is higher in a wild game with big multiway pots, but variance is also a lot higher. Once you learn how to clobber the nits you will be just fine in almost any game at those stakes.
  • By the way don't get caught up trying to play anything close to GTO. That won't maximize your win at small stakes live games. If your coaching or training is geared toward tough online games, or gets caught up in perfecting balance against opponents who are wildly unbalanced, then ask them about it. If you don't like the answer, change coaches or training sites.
  • 2+2 LSSNL is a good resource, but take threads there with a grain of salt. Thank everyone for their feedback but don't hesitate to question it. If you like, I can share some opinions on the shared "leaks" there. In a sentence, they're a bit too weak-tight and trying a little too much to fit-or-fold, just like the $2-5 villains you're going to be brutalizing soon.

    Read other sites too.
  • In your shoes I would plan to start out with a portfolio that's mostly $2-5 with $1-3 in the mix and an occasional shot at shortstacking $5-10 if the game looks juicy. You know small samples don't matter, but what does matter is identifying your opponents' leaks and knowing how to exploit them. (Miller book is great for typical games at these stakes.) If you can tell us 5 or 6 of your opponents' leaks at $2-5, then don't waste time grinding $1-3 unless it makes you feel more comfortable.

    With above-average intelligence and decent training, it shouldn't take more than maybe 6 months of this for you to be a $25/hour winner at a mix of $2-5 and $5-10, I don't think.
  • Budget for a training period of slightly losing to break-even poker at $2-5; try to play softer games to start. If you ever feel intimidated, buying in short and building up a stack while observing is OK. But pretty soon you shouldn't feel intimidated.

    Can you modify your sleeping hours to play more late nights or early mornings? Don't overdo it -- graveyard shifts are unhealthy!
  • There are ways to keep expenses low. A few years back I used to stay at weekly rentals in LV that were well under $300 a week. If you're going to be at the cardroom most of your waking hours anyway, a modest studio should be fine.
  • Cherokee seems like it would support your goals, perhaps with occasional jaunts to Vegas (e.g. WSOP side games), LA, or some East Coast destinations. $2-5 is pretty constant there right? Plenty of $5-10 on the weekends?

    Out of curiosity I just looked for studios near there on Zillow but it's not really that kind of market. It does seem like there are 1-2BRs in the area below $1000/mo. It might be a bit of a commute, but surely better than $150/night in a hotel.

    Regarding LA -- obviously expenses there are through the roof but I suspect at $2-5 and higher that the softness of the games relative to Vegas makes up for it. I've never played at Cherokee though, which might have both terrible players and low CoL.

    Also FL is supposed to have really soft games and much lower cost of living than Los Angeles, so those rooms are worth a visit.
  • Upthread some were skeptical of your ability to get in volume. If you really enjoy poker, two weeks a month of 12 hour days * 6 days / week leaves you with 144 hours. (A "full time" job is 160 hrs per 4-week month.)
  • For now focus on NLHE -- it's obviously the most widely available game and you have enough to think about -- but consider in 6 or 12 months branching out. Low-stakes PLO games are really juicy but crazy variance. $1-2 PLO > $2-5 NLHE. If you do end up traveling to poker meccas like LA then limit games (especially split pot, with lower variance) may be more your style. Or not. Be open minded and try new things!

Have fun!

Last edited by AKQJ10; 08-15-2021 at 09:05 PM.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-15-2021 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
I have watched and continue to watch a few of the poker Vloggers content. Primarily the usual suspects...Brad Owen, Andrew Neeme, Jaman Burton, Mariano, JohnnieVibes, Ben Deach, LexO...primarily those. I am unfamiliar with Doug McCusker, however. Indeed! It's not for the faint of heart. I think these vlogs offer great value often times but I do in fact recognize that they are attempting to profit off of them so there is a strong entertainment component that they inject into them. I enjoy the hand histories and seeing how various players play various hands, etc.

Indeed, stack sizes and the buy-in cap are the REAL determining factors of the size of the game. For example, the 1/3 game at MGM National Harbor plays quite large with a $500 cap, that's the same cap as the Bellagio 2/5 in Vegas.

You are correct. I did say that my goal is to comfortably play 2/5 and up. But I also ended my overly long paragraph saying that my ultimate goal is to simply win as much money as possible. So, if that means playing 1/3 forever because I average $40/hour and at 2/5 I average $15/hour, then I'm okay with simply crushing 1/3 and printing money (all while attempting to continue to improve my game to maximize and grow in the confines of 2/5 and above (in theory))! But ideally, my skill level is already at or will only increase making it easier (in theory) to gradually grow through the ranks. My end goal is to not necessarily be playing 10/20 or 25/50 or higher and being stressed out about the dollar amounts at play. I would love to strike the balance of being 100% comfortable, earn as much money as I can, and continue to grow through the ranks at whatever rate makes the most sense.

Thanks for the feedback!

AD
I'm assuming you have to travel to play, since you said you lived in North Carolina. If thats the case, your going to be paying hotel expenses every day you play poker. 1/2 or 2/5 isnt going to be enough to make this worth it. 5/10 is honestly going to be just barely getting by. And then youre left with the higher stakes where its maybe worth it but your run into skill level issues, because fact is, unless you have god-given poker talent and years of experience your arent going to beat those stakes.

I would just work under the assumption that poker is just a hobby and not a serious way of making money until you make so much money you are forced to think otherwise. I mean you make at least $100k and you make it quickly.

Last edited by spino1i; 08-15-2021 at 09:37 PM.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-15-2021 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
I'm assuming you have to travel to play, since you said you lived in North Carolina.
That's not a valid assumption for the entire state of NC. However, Raleigh to Cherokee appears to be over a 4.5 hours drive, so clearly not commutable unless you're doing crazy 36 hour sessions or something which I emphatically do not recommend.

As I said above, there's no reason to pay for hotel rooms given OP's proposed schedule (blocks of 13-14 days). Monthly rent is less than 10 nights in a hotel.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-16-2021 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10
I love threads like this.

You seem to have a solid plan--critically, including exit criteria and a viable exit plan--so you should be fine. Some random points, might already be covered:
  • No one can tell you bankroll needs until we have at least a rough estimate of winrate (and stdev and acceptable risk of ruin). Even if you're winning, it could be winning 0.01 BB/hr or 8 BB/hr, with a huge difference in those two bankrolls (holding stdev and RoR constant).
  • Absolutely set aside some of your "budget" (to become a bankroll) on training. You might find a few hours of 1:1 or group coaching helpful. At the least, I know of at least one training site with a pretty cheap entry level offering that gives you everything you need to beat most live $2-5 and then some.

    Good coaching or at least good online training frees you up to target the stakes you want to be at (see below) without constantly second-guessing whether you're good enough.
  • Read Miller's The Course. OK, so apparently you have. Reread it.

    By now you should understand the nuances of something you wrote:



    OMC types are some of the most predictably exploitable opponents. You're not trying for $1500 2-5 pots with your sets, although some of them will hang onto those aces once they finally get 'em; you're trying to build a lot of $200 or $300 pots and barrel intelligently to take them down when no one wants to play for stacks.

    To be sure, your hourly is higher in a wild game with big multiway pots, but variance is also a lot higher. Once you learn how to clobber the nits you will be just fine in almost any game at those stakes.
  • By the way don't get caught up trying to play anything close to GTO. That won't maximize your win at small stakes live games. If your coaching or training is geared toward tough online games, or gets caught up in perfecting balance against opponents who are wildly unbalanced, then ask them about it. If you don't like the answer, change coaches or training sites.
  • 2+2 LSSNL is a good resource, but take threads there with a grain of salt. Thank everyone for their feedback but don't hesitate to question it. If you like, I can share some opinions on the shared "leaks" there. In a sentence, they're a bit too weak-tight and trying a little too much to fit-or-fold, just like the $2-5 villains you're going to be brutalizing soon.

    Read other sites too.
  • In your shoes I would plan to start out with a portfolio that's mostly $2-5 with $1-3 in the mix and an occasional shot at shortstacking $5-10 if the game looks juicy. You know small samples don't matter, but what does matter is identifying your opponents' leaks and knowing how to exploit them. (Miller book is great for typical games at these stakes.) If you can tell us 5 or 6 of your opponents' leaks at $2-5, then don't waste time grinding $1-3 unless it makes you feel more comfortable.

    With above-average intelligence and decent training, it shouldn't take more than maybe 6 months of this for you to be a $25/hour winner at a mix of $2-5 and $5-10, I don't think.
  • Budget for a training period of slightly losing to break-even poker at $2-5; try to play softer games to start. If you ever feel intimidated, buying in short and building up a stack while observing is OK. But pretty soon you shouldn't feel intimidated.

    Can you modify your sleeping hours to play more late nights or early mornings? Don't overdo it -- graveyard shifts are unhealthy!
  • There are ways to keep expenses low. A few years back I used to stay at weekly rentals in LV that were well under $300 a week. If you're going to be at the cardroom most of your waking hours anyway, a modest studio should be fine.
  • Cherokee seems like it would support your goals, perhaps with occasional jaunts to Vegas (e.g. WSOP side games), LA, or some East Coast destinations. $2-5 is pretty constant there right? Plenty of $5-10 on the weekends?

    Out of curiosity I just looked for studios near there on Zillow but it's not really that kind of market. It does seem like there are 1-2BRs in the area below $1000/mo. It might be a bit of a commute, but surely better than $150/night in a hotel.

    Regarding LA -- obviously expenses there are through the roof but I suspect at $2-5 and higher that the softness of the games relative to Vegas makes up for it. I've never played at Cherokee though, which might have both terrible players and low CoL.

    Also FL is supposed to have really soft games and much lower cost of living than Los Angeles, so those rooms are worth a visit.
  • Upthread some were skeptical of your ability to get in volume. If you really enjoy poker, two weeks a month of 12 hour days * 6 days / week leaves you with 144 hours. (A "full time" job is 160 hrs per 4-week month.)
  • For now focus on NLHE -- it's obviously the most widely available game and you have enough to think about -- but consider in 6 or 12 months branching out. Low-stakes PLO games are really juicy but crazy variance. $1-2 PLO > $2-5 NLHE. If you do end up traveling to poker meccas like LA then limit games (especially split pot, with lower variance) may be more your style. Or not. Be open minded and try new things!

Have fun!
AKQJ10,

Thanks for stopping by! But more importantly, thanks for the spectacular feedback.

I will do my best to cover some of the things you mentioned.

-Allocating funds for study and training sites is a great point. I haven't technically earmarked any money for such things as I am of the mindset "if I find any study materials worthy, I'll just buy them" and soak in as much free material as I can to maximize my learning. Are there any specific training sites/books (other than "The Course"...which I will be re-reading this week) that are geared toward being successful at 2/5 and 5/10?

-As far as bankroll needs, I have determined that my original $55k bankroll (more now) is more than enough to handle the range of 1/3, 2/5, 5/10 (responsibly)...so I do have peace of mind there. Which for me, is critical.

-Excellent point about the OMC types...Cherokee is littered with them M-F during the day...BUT...you are right, so exploitable and so safe to play against. Which again, gives me tremendous peace of mind. I like the idea of focusing on trying to win $200-$300 pots off of them and get out of the mindset of playing for stacks...take what I can off of them and then wait until the evening/night to change my mindset and style to prepare for higher variance situations.

-Great comment on the GTO idea. I think it's relatively easy to identify "the correct play" often times...but more often than not, based on my experiences, it's so dependent on game type and player type as to which moves are actually most profitable. GTO is great...in theory but at the end of the day my goal is earn as much money as possible so I have zero concerns about deviating from a GTO strategy!

-I would love for you to share links/threads from other posters on the LSSNL forum regarding "leaks" at these levels.

-Regarding my portfolio of games...definitely plan on sticking to 2/5 as the primary, 1/3 (at MGM National Harbor) and as I build confidence and establish a win rate, I will jump into a 5/10 game short-med stacked if it looks decent.

-I am not super keen on regularly playing graveyard shifts. They are certainly unhealthy and I am more of an early riser type person (5ish AM) but willing to adjust some while on poker trips to try and maximize profit. Cherokee runs 2/5 all the time and 5/10 games on the weekends. So, Cherokee does offer enough options to support my goals but I will most likely be splitting my team between Cherokee and MGM National Harbor (wayyyy more game options here) as they are both about 4.5 hours from my house. Indeed, there will be occasional jaunts to Vegas and various other destinations around the country when it makes sense/when I am seeking a change of scenery. I have never played in Los Angeles, are the games still as good now as they once were (as I have read/heard)?

-Correct, the apartment market in Cherokee is a bit weird....it's a tiny tourist mountain town that is Indian Grounds. There are a handful of small towns within 20-30 mins of the casino that are options for apartments. I would really need to do a cost benefit analysis of possibly looking into renting an apartment in that area versus staying in a hotel each trip. I doubt that renting an apartment makes sense (for now) as I plan on splitting my time between Cherokee and MGM National Harbor and most likely spending more time at MGM National Harbor as I progress on my journey (simply due to game selection and money to be had in the area). During the week, it looks like I can get semi decent hotels in Cherokee for $90-$120 a night....not ideal, but not treacherous either. Last trip I stayed 5 nights and I spent $610 on lodging at a Holiday Inn Express. Next week I am staying 3 nights a different hotel for $327. I mentioned this in another post, not sure if you read it, but my wife has agreed to allow 50% of my lodging costs and 100% of my food costs AND gas while on poker trips to come out of our "life roll". Meaning, my poker roll has to cover 50% of lodging and 100% of airfare...SO my poker roll isn't bearing the brunt of all overhead expenses. In fact, it's only absorbing a fraction of the expenses....which is nice. Did I mention that my wife rocks?!

-Florida is high on the list of places to visit. I hear Seminole Hard Rock (Fort Lauderdale/Guitar hotel (I think)) is amazing. I have connections in all the big cities in Texas and I know the poker scene is blossoming nicely out there. So, outside of Cherokee and MGM National Harbor I think Vegas, Texas, and Florida will be visited with some regularity. Possibly LA too if it makes sense for me.

-Yeah, regarding volume...I have a tendency to play A LOT when I go on these poker trips. For example, I logged 53 hours in 5 days my last trip to Cherokee...so I feel as if I can hit 100-120 hours a month, that's fairly close full time IMO.

-That's the plan. Focus solely on NLHE for now and maybe dive into the "great game" of Pot Limit Omaha in a few months (6-9) as my bankroll increases and my curiosities become greater. I have dabbled in the past and know how to play, but definitely don't have a high level understanding of it. I hear that's where the BIG money is made these days....

Thanks again brother! Looking forward to more dialogue on the topic and various others! And I appreciate your outlook of optimism...it's incredibly refreshing.

Cheers

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-16-2021 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
I'm assuming you have to travel to play, since you said you lived in North Carolina. If thats the case, your going to be paying hotel expenses every day you play poker. 1/2 or 2/5 isnt going to be enough to make this worth it. 5/10 is honestly going to be just barely getting by. And then youre left with the higher stakes where its maybe worth it but your run into skill level issues, because fact is, unless you have god-given poker talent and years of experience your arent going to beat those stakes.

I would just work under the assumption that poker is just a hobby and not a serious way of making money until you make so much money you are forced to think otherwise. I mean you make at least $100k and you make it quickly.
Correct. I do/will have overhead every time I go play poker due to proximity issues to casinos. Figuring out the overhead issues is part of the puzzle . However, there are NUMEROUS factors and variables that I have listed in this thread that help alleviate some of the overhead obstacles.

Regarding your $100k comment, are you saying that I probably won't feel successful as a poker player unless I make a lot of money quickly? And you are just using the $100k number as a arbitrary amount which represents "a lot" of money? Not trying to be a jerk at all, just seeking clarification.

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-16-2021 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Great. Thank you. Definitely seeking to use an app to track stats, anyone got any suggestions?
Good luck on your poker journey. I use the Poker Income app and while I don't think it's being updated, it does all the tracking that I need.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-16-2021 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by umaine89
Good luck on your poker journey. I use the Poker Income app and while I don't think it's being updated, it does all the tracking that I need.

Thanks!

Yep, I downloaded and used the Poker Income app myself....seems to do the trick.

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-17-2021 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Correct. I do/will have overhead every time I go play poker due to proximity issues to casinos. Figuring out the overhead issues is part of the puzzle . However, there are NUMEROUS factors and variables that I have listed in this thread that help alleviate some of the overhead obstacles.

Regarding your $100k comment, are you saying that I probably won't feel successful as a poker player unless I make a lot of money quickly? And you are just using the $100k number as a arbitrary amount which represents "a lot" of money? Not trying to be a jerk at all, just seeking clarification.

AD
Poker is not like other jobs. You need to make a lot of money really fast or you will burn out and not have much to show for your time. It gets to be a pretty brutal environment if you are there day after day after day. Other jobs you just have to show up. With cards, you have to play winning poker all day while your there. Easy to do for a few days, much harder to do week after week month after month, especially if your mental health takes a hit. 100k is a bit of an arbitrary number, but the point is you need to make life-changing money quickly for it to be worth it by itself.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-17-2021 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
Poker is not like other jobs. You need to make a lot of money really fast or you will burn out and not have much to show for your time. It gets to be a pretty brutal environment if you are there day after day after day. Other jobs you just have to show up. With cards, you have to play winning poker all day while your there. Easy to do for a few days, much harder to do week after week month after month, especially if your mental health takes a hit. 100k is a bit of an arbitrary number, but the point is you need to make life-changing money quickly for it to be worth it by itself.
Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. Definitely fair points.

I think I am looking to combat the mental fatigue/frustrations with the solace of knowing I don't HAVE to be there in that moment playing poker. That's the issue with the regular job and just "showing up". You show up because you HAVE TO. Yes, with poker I will eventually HAVE TO go play but it's much more on my timeline. It's not critical that I go later today, tomorrow, or this weekend. Or even next week or the week after that. With a normal job, that's 1,000% not going to happen. Even if you can afford financially to not be there, you're committed to go. You're obligated to go. Someone else is counting on you. And that is a massive difference between poker as a job and a "normal job" IMO. With a normal job, you've agreed to commit your time in a very structured way (in most cases)...and that, to me, is very draining over the course of a lifetime. Burnout anyone? Perhaps that's what happened to me in my last role in the service industry, good ole fashioned burnout. And maybe I am using poker this go around as an escape. But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do my best to make it successful and hopefully sustainable!

I think I agree with you. Getting into a position to make "life changing money" would be very helpful and make things easier. It would certainly make it feel like the things I am doing are the right things for me. I'm starting to understand the value in playing higher stakes (not that I am going to do this in the immediate future) but in a general sense, I think the only true way to feel as if you are "making it" as a poker player is if you see solid monetary gain. Which is one reason I am doing my best to stay disciplined and use my situation to the best of my ability. I am trying to maximize my study time when I am home as much as I can (within reason). I am trying to grind as much money as I can. I am trying to stay healthy so I can feel my best. Because frankly, as of this moment, I am not super interested in heading back to the workforce anytime soon.

That's the main draw for the poker gig, right? All that freedom!
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-17-2021 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. Definitely fair points.

I think I am looking to combat the mental fatigue/frustrations with the solace of knowing I don't HAVE to be there in that moment playing poker. That's the issue with the regular job and just "showing up". You show up because you HAVE TO. Yes, with poker I will eventually HAVE TO go play but it's much more on my timeline. It's not critical that I go later today, tomorrow, or this weekend. Or even next week or the week after that. With a normal job, that's 1,000% not going to happen. Even if you can afford financially to not be there, you're committed to go. You're obligated to go. Someone else is counting on you. And that is a massive difference between poker as a job and a "normal job" IMO. With a normal job, you've agreed to commit your time in a very structured way (in most cases)...and that, to me, is very draining over the course of a lifetime. Burnout anyone? Perhaps that's what happened to me in my last role in the service industry, good ole fashioned burnout. And maybe I am using poker this go around as an escape. But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do my best to make it successful and hopefully sustainable!

I think I agree with you. Getting into a position to make "life changing money" would be very helpful and make things easier. It would certainly make it feel like the things I am doing are the right things for me. I'm starting to understand the value in playing higher stakes (not that I am going to do this in the immediate future) but in a general sense, I think the only true way to feel as if you are "making it" as a poker player is if you see solid monetary gain. Which is one reason I am doing my best to stay disciplined and use my situation to the best of my ability. I am trying to maximize my study time when I am home as much as I can (within reason). I am trying to grind as much money as I can. I am trying to stay healthy so I can feel my best. Because frankly, as of this moment, I am not super interested in heading back to the workforce anytime soon.

That's the main draw for the poker gig, right? All that freedom!
Thanks for your reply to my other post.

I think people overestimate the freedom that comes from playing poker. I see poker streamers sit at their desks 10 hours a day 5-6 hours a week and some of them don't even make that much money.

Compare that to me - I spent the last two days laying around in my bed with a cold and still got paid.

Also, lodging isn't cheap in the DC area but if you ever take a trip to play at MGM send me a message. I live pretty close by.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-18-2021 , 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacan
Thanks for your reply to my other post.

I think people overestimate the freedom that comes from playing poker. I see poker streamers sit at their desks 10 hours a day 5-6 hours a week and some of them don't even make that much money.

Compare that to me - I spent the last two days laying around in my bed with a cold and still got paid.

Also, lodging isn't cheap in the DC area but if you ever take a trip to play at MGM send me a message. I live pretty close by.
You bet.

Fair point. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic about the freedom? Maybe I should be saying flexibility instead of freedom? Aha! I think that might be a better word for it. Flexibility in poker > flexibility in most other jobs. Freedom is up for interpretation I suppose.

Indeed! Lodging up there is absolutely ridiculous. I used to have a friend that lived in Tyson's Corner...sheesh.

But I definitely will shoot you a message when I get a MGM trip on the books. I'm forecasting that to happen late mid/late October or early November at the latest...

Thanks again. I enjoy the civil back and forth and I love seeing how various people have certain viewpoints toward the topic. Feel free to ask any additional questions, provide commentary, etc.

Have a great Wednesday!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-21-2021 , 04:44 PM
Howdy folks!

I'll be back late next week/next weekend for an update. Headed out this Monday and coming back Thursday for a 3 night jaunt. Have a great weekend all!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-27-2021 , 09:24 AM
Happy Monday everyone!

Just got home from my 3 night jaunt to Cherokee. Played Monday-Wednesday. Decided to not play any yesterday as I was exhausted and had to drive 4.5 hours back home.

Overall a successful trip. Played roughly 30 hours of 2/5 NL...profited $2,440 for the week. Been dealing with an ear infection for the last couple weeks and it's been a doozie. Monday my ear was killing me so I had to cut my session short (possibly due to the elevation change). It felt better the next couple days though.

Not as many action players this time around. Much more of a grind. This was also the week immediately following the WSOP stop (I arrived the very last day of the WSOP). So I think the majority of the action had left town already. Still a good trip.

Also, fewer games for sure this time around. So, literally impossible to game select when there were never more than 2 2/5 games running at one time. Not the end of the world but I know it's not ideal long term. This is a big reason why Cherokee most likely won't be my primary playing destination. Just not enough games. But, I like it as a change of pace and I knew it would be a good way to ease back into things.

The big takeaway I think is my confidence. I am confident I can play and compete at these stakes. I can certainly tell that my game has improved since I spent quite a bit of time studying during the pandemic. There are definitely some good players at this level (competent might be a better word) but there are also some absolutely terrible ones. But most importantly, some of them are SO PREDICTABLE. Obviously it is still very early in my journey and my sample size is microscopic. This may be a bit over zealous, but I am tempted to dabble in a 5/10 game in Vegas in October just to see what it's like. Assuming I am feeling good overall. But until my bankroll grows a bit more, I would say 65k-75k...I think 2/5 will be the bread and butter. It's big enough where you can make some money to justify your time but I am also able to minimize risk by buying a "safe amount".

Not too much poker in September for me unfortunately. I plan on playing 1 day at Talking Stick in Phoenix (September 9th I believe). Then a couple times in Houston the following week.

Vegas October 3-7. And I think I am planning on a MGM National Harbor trip mid October.

This is another issue with this lifestyle. I am finding somewhat difficult to plan out my trips in advance. And when doing so, I find myself asking a lot of questions. How long should I go for? Which destination should I hit up? Should I take 5% of bankroll? More? Less? How many trips should I have on the books at once?...None of which are complaints, just added complexities to an already complex situation.

Thanks for reading. Looking forward to chatting with you all soon. Hope everyone has a great day!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-27-2021 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Happy Monday everyone!
Doesn't compute.
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
08-27-2021 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkuber
Doesn't compute.
Lmao! My apologies. Brain is fried. Hope I didn’t give anyone a heart attack and mislead them into thinking today is Monday
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
09-08-2021 , 03:09 PM
Off to Phoenix tonight until Sunday. Going to be tied up with wedding festivities all week. However, I am able to sneak off to Talking Stick tomorrow to grind for a few hours. Excited to check it out---I will report back when time allows! Hope everyone is having a great week.

Cheers!

AD
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote
09-13-2021 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad1260
Off to Phoenix tonight until Sunday. Going to be tied up with wedding festivities all week. However, I am able to sneak off to Talking Stick tomorrow to grind for a few hours. Excited to check it out---I will report back when time allows! Hope everyone is having a great week.

Cheers!

AD
Back from Arizona. Had the honor of officiating the wedding of my sister in law and brother in law in Sedona. What a beautiful place! Spent 2 days in Phoenix and 2 days in Sedona. Not a bad life. Got to enjoy some awesome food, good company, and incredible scenery.

Was able to play a day at Talking Stick as I mentioned. It did not go well. Actually, it was the worst part of the trip. For multiple reasons.

I played 3/5 in the 600 max spread limit game. I ended up losing 1k in about 8 hours. Primarily I played like crap but was very card dead for a long portion of the day which is okay. But they are currently playing 7 handed max (which is fine) with plexi glass (my first time doing this). I absolutely hated it. I literally felt like I was in prison and my opponents and the dealer were my friends and family visiting me on the other side of the glass. The only difference between this and prison is that I didn't have a phone to communicate with my visitors .

Are these excuses as to why I lost 1k? Probably. They definitely are NOT the reason why but man, it definitely did not make for a fun environment.

I lost 500 bucks on a silly hand where I called a EP raise to 25 when I was on the button with pocket 9's. Flop comes 3 4 7 rainbow. Villain C bets for 40. I call. Turn is a 2 completing the rainbow. Villain bets 75 and I come over the top ridiculously for 350 and he shrug calls after a minute tank with pocket Aces. He genuinely thought he had ran into a set I could tell but once he called I knew I was toast. Villain was a 30 something year old semi aggressive player. Was definitely the table "bully". Honestly thought I could get him to fold an over pair but really thought he was just C betting with AK or AQ. Didn't think he was as strong as he actually was.

This happened 2 hours into my session and I just kinda bled chips the rest of the day. Also, I was probably the 3rd or 4th best player at the table out of 7....I should of just switched tables or called it a day early.

Disappointed with my play, with my lack of control realizing I wasn't really feeling the vibe but still played. Had been up since 4am as well and was dead tired after traveling the prior day. I 100% should NOT have played poker this trip.

Headed to Texas for more wedding related stuff on Thursday (engagement party/catchup with my best friends). Will probably play a session or two but must be more in tune with how I am feeling.

Starting to think if I should only play poker on poker only specified trips.....when I am solo and there on "business"....? Hmmmmm

Really looking forward to Vegas 10/3-10/7 which will be a poker business trip for sure!
The Plot Thickens...Poker Advice and Life's Biggest Mysteries Quote

      
m