I was playing in a live stream game and two players got all in pre-flop in Omaha and wanted to run it twice. However, regional differences led to a big controversy into what that meant. Obviously EV is going to be the same, although the odds of scooping go up if you play it with 1 flop, 2 turns/2 rivers.

If you don't play PLO and only play Holdem, don't vote, two boards for Hold'em seems very standard.

Hand in question is here:

https://youtu.be/AK9sywiPAyY?t=8027

Depends when the money goes in. All in preflop is two full boards.

It was all in preflop.

Curious where you play as well.

Two full boards. Never seen otherwise.

"A lot of chatter at this table, more than I've ever seen."

"Let's hear what they're saying."

Followed by two minutes of the commentators almost non-stop talking loudly over the players. Anyway, I am surprised to learn that this is regional, but even if it is, don't players from that region ever get out or watch poker being played in other regions? WSOP cash game rules?

The single-flop variant feels unnatural to me. I have trouble imagining how a region decided on that being the thing to do.

It’s bizarre to me that this would ever mean something other than two full boards. Why would this be different in PLO?
Also, seems like that Joe guys should have been kicked out for pulling his mask off.

Unless they're playing 10 handed, I see no reason why it wouldn't be two full boards.

I don't really think it's as regional as it may appear to be. Typically you would run out two full Boards and split the pot accordingly if all the Players are all-in Pre-Flop.

You do have an issue if you are playing 10-handed as there's only 12 cards left in the stub and you need 16 for two 'classic' runouts. We typically will just burn one card before each Board. With 9-handed play you end up using every card in the stub exactly.

We do have a few Players who want only one Flop and if 'it's meant to be, then it's meant to be' after that when you run out two Turns and Rivers.

Why not go Flop, Turn, Turn, River, River?

Boyz ... it's all comes down to what you agree to ... which is why you come to an agreement before the Dealer puts out any additional cards. GL

The players aren't mic'd in the game so you can't hear **** even when it's quiet. Thedealer is mic'd up so that the action tracker can keep up, he announces all action into the mic. That would be terrible to hear, so they keep it low in the background, except the person in the booth setting it up types in the action.

The game ended up with this difference because it was a special game where Fireman Scott brought in 3 other players from Houston (who he plays with there for 10+ years), and came to Austin (4 Austin players, although I'm not sure if any play PLO that much live. I'm one, literally my 4th live full PLO session, one guy is mostly a tournament player that has been breaking into cash games and hadn't played much PLO, the guy in the hand is from out of town but has been in Austin and seemingly has played a lot, but had never seen it, and another Austin player who I've seen playing PLO before and I think is in some of the bigger games judging by how he pulls out $500 chips out of his pouch a few times).

When you play Big O, there just might not be enough cards to run it twice. You certainly can't run it 3 times in Omaha without sharing a flop with that many people, there just aren't enough cards.

PLO is a lot bigger in Houston than Austin, and especially at this cardroom - Omaha is not as frequently dealt as Hold'em, at least post-covid.

WSOP cash game rules make it seem like you can agree to do it any way you want, but the standard is full boards.

The other regional difference that comes up is this game played with an UTG-straddle (Austin rule), and Houston typically plays with a button straddle.

The problem came that both sides and the dealer thought it was very clear what was going on, until it wasn't.

The best thing that could have happened would to have the players agree to reshuffle the cards in the deck, and then let them decide how they wanted to do business. If they can't agree, rip it once. But Joe will always feel like he got ripped off if he hit the true flop, and then loses on the shuffle. Obviously this opens things up to angleshots, but in this case both players were clearly not angling and genuinely confused.

Not trying to be a pain, but the 'table' does/should have a mic (I think) ... doubt it's the Dealer mic that turned way down. The commentators can hear the Players to a certain degree and often comment on any off color stories or swearing that may go on.

I love the fact that even though it's the same 'operator' (TCH) that the different locations do allow for Player preferences ... that's the way to run a card room (within reason).

Interesting game Sat night, I must've missed this 'controversy' as I've only watched through FS's QQ debacle v MJ's AAxx $6K pot. I see the game ended up 4-handed ... did it really break over a RIT issue? GL

It's all going through the dealer (or a single mic). Which is why you can hear Scott yell the loudest, he's right next to him.

The commentators do hear it, although they **** up the stories or misunderstand what's being said a lot of the time. I know of several examples where they tried to relay what was being said and it was just wrong.

After that hand, MJ packed up and left. He lost a ton the previous stream and might have been looking for an excuse to lock up a victory, but the atmosphere went to **** after that. They sent in the normal commentator to play (who also is a dealer, and is severely underolled to play that game but took a shot for fun), but Joe ended up losing a big hand after on tilt and left. Scott ended up being pissed off and left, between the ruling and the suckout, he wasn't going to play his A game (though his C game was probably good enough for that lineup, but wasn't in the mood). I heard they might have gone to another room to play.

The other two Houston players ended up busting out on a 4-way all in preflop I scooped and didn't return.

So ended up with 3 original Austin players + the commentator playing for the last hour (which was a pretty fun game to play, although nowhere near as crazy as before).

Thanks for coming in here with some inside viewpoints. Hopefully management doesn't get cold feet on these streams when they fall apart. (You mean you guys are just 'normal' hot-tempered Regs and not Pros?)

The golf match seems like a disaster waiting to happen ... someone's going to run out of money by the 12th hole and it could affect attendance for the steams .. maybe.

Putting 'real' people out on stream can get very personal. Having neighbors and kids watching at home may not be the best long term for some Players.

I'll jump on YouTube and try to find the RIT hand before commenting more ... GL

So the hand is at 2:14 of the YouTube stream. It comes very soon after the AA suckout hand and is the first hand that Scott is back at the table after the suckout. So there's some extra mustard in the air for sure.

But it's really just a misunderstanding of how things are done in a 'local' room. It is amazing that for all the times that Scott has had streams (and I assume some off camera cash spots) that he hadn't seen this at least once before.

The thing that no one has mentioned as of yet ... IMO the Kx comes out as the Turn or River on the 2nd Board if they run it the 'right' way anyway. So all of this tussle ends up with the same result either way. No matter how the Dealer flips the 2nd Flop the King would've been either the Turn or River on the 2nd Board, probably the River.

Too bad a great stream was wrecked over an issue like this .. .GL

There's only been 3 streams in Austin, and I don't think I ever saw an all-in preflop ran twice on the stream. When you aren't that deep, a lot of people will just let it rip, and if you are deep, it's hard to get it all in preflop.

We definitely called it out in the game that it didn't even matter in this case, it was getting split no matter what.

I think people have calmed down since, hopefully it doesn't kill it, I'm a big fan of the streams and PLO, even if I don't play in it again.

One guy's a pro, there was another at the table who might be, I don't know it, but 3 players he brought in were people with day jobs and just played a lot of PLO together over many years, I was just a frequent viewer of the stream who asked to be on, the one guy was on a previous stream and likes to gamble and makes a great entertaining game, and the other two are regulars in Austin (one on the stream a lot, but he has a day job and plays for fun, but is solid).

I was sharing the link with friends and family, said something about it and it turned into a big deal in the announcing about my kids watching, this was a special thing, I'm not going to be going on there and losing tons of money every month at it regardless, I'm a very recreational player who used to be good back in the day but fell behind the times.

This is one reason I always run it once. Even when it seems clear that both players want the same logistics to happen, every now and then something like this happens. Always run it once, there's never anything to argue about later. Also, since I spend so much time on the road, it will often be me who doesn't understand the local custom, and thinks he's getting screwed.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Not all of us made millions winning the main event and want to ride the variance train!

If you do 2 full boards, 9 handed, it means you're using all 52 cards. Traditionally in poker, the dealer must have at least 1 card remaining in the stub at the end of the hand. Back in the days of 7 card stud, the '1 card remaining in the stub' rule would dictate whether the dealer might bring back the burn cards for a wash or would deal out a community card on 7th street.

I dealt in one room where we did one flop, two turns, and two rivers just for that reason.

The room I'm in now does two full boards, but with a twist. Before dealing the second river, the dealer washes the last two cards with the burn cards, then burns a single card, and then peals the river.

I've played (but not dealt) in rooms where they just run the two full boards and ignore the tradition of leaving one card in the stub.

Of course it's a moot point these days, because Covid tables are 7 handed at most.

A club I used to frequent had a house rule that in Omaha you could only run the turn and river 2 times. So I know it happens that way sometimes. If the venue does not have such a rule, I would assume "run it twice" pre-flop means the whole board, but if there was confusion, I would try to do whatever resolved the matter the fastest so we could get back to playing poker. (Like FossilMan, I just run it once an avoid all possible confusion).

FWIW we were playing 8 handed.

Our room only runs 2 full boards if 8 or less were dealt in bc we must keep the last card in our hand. Of course not an issue since corona rules went into effect.

Never been 'exposed' to the one-card left rule. Good to see that more than one poster is making reference to it as well to limit the 'WTF' effect.

Plenty of threads on this site that 'warn' you to make sure you clarify spots when you travel for poker outside your normal games. GL

my room also has the last card rule but still lets people run two boards if everyone is dealt in, they just don't burn for the second flop

as people mentioned some places don't allow 2 full boards when all players are dealt in so it is room specific.

In Houston omaha games running it twice is usually one flop,two turns, and two rivers.
This will occur in 99% of run it twice situations when all in preflop.
Two full boards will occur 1% of the time.
When players are all in preflop, one player will ask the other, "Flop,twice,twice?"
The other player will say yes or no. It is very rare for someone to say " Do you want to run it twice?"
They may say " Two full boards?" instead of "Flop, twice, twice?" This usually happens only if it is short handed.