First time this has happened to me. Table was a bit torn on whether I did the right thing. Hero is in the 2 seat. V in the 7. Hero has j9 and I flopped a pair of 9s. I bet $25 and V calls. Turn is another 9. I bet $50 and V throws in a black and a green. Dealer announces raise to $125. I move in and V folds. This was the last hand for this dealer so he ships me the pot and moves on. New dealer comes in and about two hands later the V says that he announced call. He meant to throw in 2 green chips. Not a black. Because he claimed he verbalized call. The rise should not have stood and I owe him $75. I ask if anyone else heard him say call and no other players say they heard him say anything. Floor is called and they essentially leave it up to me as to if I want to give him the money back. To keep there from being an issue I agreed and gave him back the money. He was a loose losing player so I figured better to keep him happy and at the table. Thoughts?

If he had immediately spoken up and said he meant to throw in two greens, I wouldn't have had an issue with letting him correct his action especially since it was a heads up pot.

Two hands later? 0% chance I'm giving him a cent. If he actually announced call (spoiler: he didn't), why wouldn't he speak up immediately?

It's your decision, but I would not have done that. If there was a time to speak up, it was when the mistake happened. It's more likely than not that you got angled.

Do you think that refunding him is +EV versus not refunding him? That's the math. Sure, keep him happy, but was he going anywhere and with money that would have otherwise gone to you?

(The floor shouldn't use any wording that leaves the responsibility with you. That's an unfair amount of pressure. All they should say is that the result of the pot stands.)

If I really felt like refunding him, which is unlikely, I would do it away from the table.

Letting everyone know they can dispute the outcome of a hand several hands later without any serious reason to do so, that sets a bad precedent to the rest of the table imo.

Dealer announced raise, you shoved, he folded.

2 hands later? Not a chance.

Shame on the floor for not being decisive.

What a horrible horrible floor supervisor to put you on the spot like that. First of all, it was a raise 100%. If not, the player should have spoken up immediately before the hand ended, but even then, it still shouldn't be ruled a call because either no one heard him say call or he never even said it. Second of all, a supervisor should never do that without first consulting with the original dealer to ask her if he announced call. Obviously she would of said no and he still should of ruled it a raise.

If the guy threw in 2 green he doesn't have to announce call, and if he had a green and a black, why on earth would he throw in both instead of just the black while announcing call (which he still doesn't have to)?

If that was me I would have simply told that dope floor supervisor "He raised, he didn't say call".

Zero percent chance he gets any money back and I'd likely assume he's angling and takes me for a sucker. Two hands later plus not a single other person heard a thing, get lost buddy.

"Meant to throw in two greens". Dealer announced raise when V raised. You might have folded. Your money, all of it. Best for all you take it, simply because it's right.

How did you raise a heads up call of $50? Sounds like you were angled if he didn't immediately dispute action called by dealer.

Given a reasonable story I may return someone's money in spite of the rules being on my side, but the fact you shoved and he then folded and didn't mention the mistake makes this not reasonable.

If he'd taken the black chip back less than 1 second after throwing it in I'm probably letting him just call. Anything after that is too late.

I think he saw you as a sucker. Not only did wait two hands, he waited until after the dealer changed. He should get nothing. I'd actually think about going to the poker room manager about seeing the floor got some training.

these stakes are too small to concern yourself with the feelings of some 'whale' thats good for the game.

"and about two hands later"

lol come on

How would his call allow you to shove?

pos ******ed floor for leaving it up to you. the job of the dealer and floor is to take the heat off players not leave it up to them making u look like a bad guy when u say NO. the no they should have said themselves. ive never met staff anywhere that wasnt bad though

The dealer shouldn't have even called the floor for this issue. Two hands later? Even if there was a fouled deck they're not going to do anything about it two hands later.

Really excellent posts.

It makes no sense for him to fold to your shove if he had just called. It is possible that Villain didn't realize you weren't allowed to shove in the moment. Which would make him an extremely bad/drunk player. But in the end it doesn't matter because his inadvertent raise could have gotten you to fold as mentioned above. So even if it wasn't done intentionally it would still be an angle unless Villain had immediately spoken up when the Dealer said "Raise".

Had Villain objected to the raise as it was happening I would have let him just call my bet. And by "as it was happening" I mean when the Dealer announced it and before you had done anything. Including taking time to think about it. However, this would also require the all in player to agree. For the all in player, it is beneficial to have only one opponent not two.

The ruling itself was awful because once a $100 chip and a $25 chip are put in the betting area together it is always automatically a raise. Regardless of whether or not the player intended it. In a tournament there could never be a ruling that makes it a call even if you wanted to agree to make it a call. And the reason is because it affects everyone else in the tournament. It is also because not wanting to face a raise could also be an angle. In a cash game though when all players in the hand agree to a correction after a mistake was made, then it I think it is OK.

As nice as it was to give back the $75 to a possibly distraught player, this falls under protect your action. Even though it happened well after the hand was over.

First and foremost .. I agree the 'refund' (gift) should take place off the table. Zero chance you should lesson Hero stack .. and V shouldn't be able to 'add-on' above table max even if Hero goes the charity route.

1) Speak UP
2) Correct the Action ASAP
3) What was the body language during and immediately after the 'mistake'
4) Don't let a pot get pushed if you're due change
5) Even one hand is too late for the start of a discussion, much less 2-3 .. both Dealers and Players have short term memories when it comes to details

The Floor needs a much more detailed explanation of the spot to the table to make sure these event don't start to pop up in the short term more often.
1) Sorry sir, once we start the next hand (shuffle, button) we can't go back and make any changes to the result
2) Make sure to speak up as quickly as possible if you feel there's been an error made by a Player or yourself.
3) The casino can't prevent any transactions away from the table, but you must abide by our policy on Player to Player exchanges (no matter what they might be).
4) We will not be taking any chips off Hero's stack .. V may not add-on above table stakes


As far as Hero taking one for the team and giving the 'value' back, far be it for me (based on comments in other threads) to consider this a bad decision. GL

Lastly when it comes to feeling pity for players who made a financial mistake such as mucking the winner, betting out of turn, accidental raises/calls and such; just tell them to consider it an expensive lesson. You're not trying to be an ass, just reminding them that a $200 mistake will probably be remembered better than a free one for next time.

Only do this if you want to make the other player more upset.

Yeah that makes no sense. I wonder if javi was thinking about cheap lessons and got some wires crossed lol.

Pure angle shot. Giving it back is way bogus and terrible for the game.

1. If he made zero ever to protest when the pot was pushed and his cards killed, no way I am refunding.

2. Even if I might consider it, no way i do it multiple hands later with a new dealer. If the floor somehow said I had to, I would do so (not going to get kicked out over $75) but I also call gaming.

3. The floor technically did provide an incorrect ruling. It was NOT up to you and in fact, short of the floor making you refund you could not refund. It would be a "ping". Technically you can not give money from your stack to another player. So unless the floor ruled teh $75 was V's, you technically could not give $75 of YOUR stack to V.