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Player has 3 cards, correct ruling?

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11-11-2017 , 07:52 PM

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

Preflop action is a raise from EP, 3 calls.

Flop checks round.

Turn goes check, check, check, bet, villain in blinds folds, as he folds it turns out he has 3 cards, which he did not notice until folding because two of the cards were stuck together (according to him).

What is a standard ruling here? Situation ended up with 2 floor staff, hand continues (standard ofc) and villain gets his money back out of the pot (which I question).

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11-11-2017 , 08:14 PM

AngusThermopyle

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,929

"Standard" would be play continues and Monte does not get his money back out of the pot.

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11-11-2017 , 08:24 PM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,411

Standard is his hand is dead and he gets no refunds. Player is responsible for ensuring he has the proper number of cards for the game.

About the only unusual thing that should happen here is that floor should consider whether player was actively cheating and needs to be 86ed or worse. In general, probably not, cards do stick together sometimes. But if there is any suspicion they might call surveillance and have them take a look.

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11-11-2017 , 08:29 PM

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,889

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinesh

cards do stick together sometimes.

And not notice until he folds on the turn? Cheating scumbag if you ask me.

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11-11-2017 , 08:36 PM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

And not notice until he folds on the turn? Cheating scumbag if you ask me.

Yes?

If I don't notice at the time I am originally checking my cards, then the next possible time I will notice is when I am folding or showing them down, because they are sitting there underneath a chip protector motionless otherwise.

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11-11-2017 , 09:54 PM

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,889

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinesh

If I don't notice at the time I am originally checking my cards...

Stuck cards usually come apart as soon as you touch them. Almost for sure when you bend them to peek.
And how could you not notice the thickness?

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11-11-2017 , 10:32 PM

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Standard ruling is hand plays on and no refunds. Dealer checks the deck after the hand for extra/missing cards.

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11-12-2017 , 12:51 AM

Rawlz517

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,241

+1 to dead hand/no refund

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11-12-2017 , 03:07 AM

DisRuptive1

adept

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 964

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

Stuck cards usually come apart as soon as you touch them. Almost for sure when you bend them to peek.

Some are vacuum-sealed together practically. I remember pulling down a board to show the cards used for a player's winning hand and exposing a second card behind the turn card. I peeled that card off the top of the deck and turned it over and never realized there were 2 cards.

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And how could you not notice the thickness?

Card thickness isn't the same between cards. Or maybe they are but feel slightly different in thickness as I pitch them.

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11-12-2017 , 10:13 AM

#10

Bene Gesserit

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

No money back. Can't see why this was done. Maybe he had some kind of "special" relationship IDK.

I think some players (few) might actually not notice for lots of reasons. Holding on to 3 cards intentionally doesn't seem to me to be a good move most of the time.

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11-12-2017 , 12:10 PM

#11

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

The only fair thing to do is give each of the remaining players a third card.

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11-12-2017 , 06:00 PM

#12

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

The only fair thing to do is give each of the remaining players a third card.

Poker would be so much fun if we had more floors like you

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11-12-2017 , 08:45 PM

#13

Eric

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Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13,866

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

The only fair thing to do is give each of the remaining players a third card.

Reverse Pineapple. Interesting idea.

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11-12-2017 , 09:41 PM

#14

maximilian

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 11

I think a cheating scumbag could have figured out a way to fold without revealing that he had 3 cards.

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11-12-2017 , 10:24 PM

#15

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,889

He wants them to see the three cards as he says "OMG I didn't even notice". And gets his money back.

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11-12-2017 , 10:56 PM

#16

Ray Zee

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

someone cheating would make sure all three cards got into the muck without them splitting apart.

hand plays no one gets money back.

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11-12-2017 , 10:58 PM

#17

BigBlue56

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,964

More cards than you should have after action = dead hand, no refund. Maybe circumstances warrant more.

I could imagine not noticing that I had 3 cards, assuming 2 were stuck together. I'd hope that I wouldn't be punished as a cheat, at least not the first time

No, I'm not asking for a refund.

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11-13-2017 , 02:13 AM

#18

WereBeer

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Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

OK thanks for the replies everyone, seems pretty definitive that the floor I deal with is mentally challenged.

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11-13-2017 , 07:15 PM

#19

Ray Zee

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

probably dont come from a poker backround so dont know what the right rulings are when its not in the book.

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11-13-2017 , 08:53 PM

#20

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,889

There's a book?

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11-13-2017 , 11:04 PM

#21

Ray Zee

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Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

yes

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11-14-2017 , 12:37 PM

#22

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

There's a book?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

yes

There are lots of books .. thus threads with 100+ comments ... GL

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