This is why I could never be a Floor, ever. Show your hand or I show you a rack. I'd have zero tolerance for this kind of stuff, like, zero.

I'm not going to go through this whole thread to see what everyone says but my way of dealing with showdown is that if the other guy doesn't want to show for whatever reason, I will show first even if I'm not obliged to do so.

Reason is a) I want to get on with my life b) I want to not slow the game down for everyone and c) usually they don't show because they are embarrassed to show a nothing hand and if that's the case I want them to be happy because they will continue to play bad hands and anyway I'd rather they were happy. I want good vibes at the table not nittery and death glares.

Now if another player is that guy who always tries to get the other guy to show first but doesn't reciprocate, I will sit there until the heat death of the universe rather than show out of turn. Or rather I call clock if I have to force him to show. But that hasn't happened yet.

Dont ever declare your hand without showing it. If you are last to act and want to watch everyone in front of you for whatever reason fine, keep quiet first. Although in these checkdown pots the delay of game is hitting your winrate harder than any information given or received.

The vibe I got was that this is something the guy does regularly, so I think that's part of what made me wait.

-d

OK cool but then if you're going to force him to show as it's his turn, best not to comment on your own hand, just sit there quietly or say 'show or muck sir' in a neutral tone.

I say if the guy regularly ends up at showdown with a hand worse than a pair of 8s in PLO, you should definitely speed up the game to get more hands in.

I don't know much about PLO but in Hold'Em there's a point where their range is just so wide it's not worth defining. Did they start with a top 80% hand or a top 85% hand? Who the **** cares, get more hands in! Did they call down with fourth pair or fifth pair? Who the **** cares, get more hands in!

Sure, top pro in your game pulled some fancy check/raise-check/raise line on you and you really want to know what hands she plays this way - go ahead and wait patiently. The information you gather is worth the time you lose.

Against 99% of the players or in 99.9% of showdowns (even against good players)? Next hand already.

Why do people want to make bad players uncomfortable?

Don't know what the stakes were, but I do know that there was a lot of needless delay here. Show your hand, win or lose the plot, and move on to the next hand. Hiding information from other players at a low stakes casino game is somewhat overrated. A majority of folks either are not paying attention or don't have the skill to exploit these tidbits. If you run into someone who you suspect IS more skilled than average, maybe some of that could help you at times. Next Hand!

He basically answered that question when he said that it's one of those hands that go to the flop 3way and get checked down from there. That means he either found a goldmine or it's a 1/2 (or 1/3) game. I don't think I've ever seen a higher stakes PLO game where hands like that occurred regularly.

It took to the 19th/20th comment but ... Don't announce anything unless you are ready to show it as well. You don't have to show your other cards until the others muck. If you really want the 'card' information from them, then just stay silent and make them show. But once you've taken the 'lead' with a comment I think it's up to you to show as well.

You'd never be able to muck without first showing to verify your statement!!

I don't care how deep your pockets or your style of play, it's still a little embarrassing to have to show a losing hand. And now to show when there was 'extra' PF action and it gets checked down to boot! It's pretty safe to assume that their cards were pretty weak if a 'pair of 8s' is going to take down the pot. GL

Rather than starting a new thread, these hands were similar situations that happened years ago.

Once again I was last to act in both. It was probably NLHE not that it really matters or anything.

First hand, it's heads up on the river. Player 1 puts out a large bet, I call it. He says I'm good and folds. Do I need to show? From what I recall, I asked the dealer and he said no, so dealer pushes the chips to me and I muck.

Second hand - 3 way pot everyone checks on the river. First two say they 'missed' and fold. Do I need to show anything here? I don't remember if I did or not.

Thanks for your insights in advance.

-d

Depends on house rules. At most places you would not need to show as the player with the last live hand, but at a few places you would have to show.

don't show wait til pot pushed to you and then muck.
I saw something like that where player 1 said your good mucked but dealer didn't pull in cards
player 2 showed Q high and player 1 retrieved his cards to show K high and drag pot.

if house rules require you to show ask dealer to pull in and kill mucked hands 1st if they didn't already

Situations like this one reason why I prefer the rule where you must show your cards to claim the pot if the hand goes to showdown, even if the other players muck their cards and surrender.

I like calling clock on people when they delay at showdown, just to point out how they are wasting time.

If you invoke the rules to your own advantage against me but you want a pass when it’s against you, then I will invoke the rules against you, regardless of how I rate your ability. Like I said though, generally I just flip the cards even if I don’t have to because most people aren’t douchebags.

That’s certainly a reasonable approach.

The reasoning behind treating bad players differently is that you don’t see them as your opponent but as your customer. They come to the game to have a good time and lose a bunch of money in the process and you try to make sure they have fun so they don’t stop coming back.

First time at a home game, 20 minutes in you play your first larger pot with the guy who plays 50% of hands. You bet the river, he complains and folds. You take the pot and push your cards forward towards the dealer, your opponent turns them over. Now you are obviously confused and have a WTF look on your face, so another player laughs and says that guy is doing that sometimes. At that point you can complain and make it your first and last visit to the game or you understand why that guy is allowed to turn over cards if he wants to.

Why do people play poker? Everyone has their reasons. I play because it's fun to win chips.

Since you are on the river at showdown, there is nothing to fold to. They can either show their hand or muck. As soon as the other two said they missed, I would have immediately tabled my hand.

Had they both mucked, then it's up to the house rules whether you still need to show or not. But I really can't see two players mucking their hands in a 3way pot otr at showdown without anyone showing their hand.

This is right.
You could have waited for them to show or muck; but once you took the lead and announced your own hand (which is fine to do), there's no need for them to show losing hands, and they were correct to wait for you to verify your announcement by showing before they threw their own hands away.
Especially in PLO, I wish people would just table their hands. There are definite exceptions, but most of the time showing gives away no valuable info, and holding onto the cards just wastes time.
Needing to show the winning hand when all others have mucked is a house rule in some places these days. It's fairly recent, but seems to be spreading; I think it goes along with eliminating IWTSTH in some rooms.

just turn your hand over

i've bet the river with missed wraps where all i have it 9 high snap turned it over and gotten mucks after a few seconds.

So, let's clarify something here. In these cases, facing no action, a player cannot fold. They can discard their hand, but that hand is (usually) still live until it is mucked (place irretrievably in the muck). This is omething to be careful of, as it has happened before that player a says 'You are good' and puts his cards down, player B fires his cards into the muck, then player A retrieves his still live cards and calims the pot.

Second, in most rooms, if the previous players hands have been mucked, you have the only live hand, and should be awarded the pot without having to show. There are a few (I have heard of them but never played in them) rooms that require the winning player to show a hand. This is to avoid a player with a fouled hand (three cards, for example, or 2 cards that were exactly the same) from betting to induce folds, then claiming a misdeal if called. This is not at all a common rule.

Pretty sure there is no place in the world that requires a hand be shown in this circumstance, when he has bet and everyone folded.

There are places that require a hand be shown to take the pot even if all other hands have been mucked despite calling all bets made on the river, or if no bet was made on the river.

Understood, this is a slightly different situation though. I tend to try to fit into the social setting, if the setting is a home game and that's how they do things, it's my problem if I don't like it because those are the rules at this place. First time there and everyone is 'OK that's cool', well I'm not saying anything. If I decide I just can't handle the way they do things, I don't have to go back.

I will admit if some guy in the casino is a huge donator yeah I might not force him to show even if he is someone who forces me to show. I'm thinking more of a couple of the sour so-so regs when I say I would force someone to show. I've only logged 600 hours in the casino and it hasn't happened yet. When I first started playing live I would make the other guy show and then I realised it made things go a lot quicker if I just flipped them over so that's my usual policy now.

Me too, but everyone, including you, has a limit on what they will put up with because at some point the fun of winning chips is outweighed by what's going on during that process.

For me, someone who calls the rules on me but doesn't want the rules to apply to them is someone who annoys me and I will call the rules on them. I guess if I can easily quantify a big profit by giving him a special pass, I probably will but inequitable rules application just isn't fun for me.

If I were at the table watching the big, bad and ugly showdown over a small pot I'd throw a dollar out and loudly proclaim the first to show gets it.