Non-sequitur: Just played at Mont-Tremblant, and I'm glad I read this thread. My first hand was DD, and if I hadn't seen this, I would have been completely thrown

The hunnies

There's a boob joke here somewhere.

I was thinking the same thing (and I'm a woman)!

Because if you go there you are guaranteed to be in the presence of organized criminals. Some people (like me) would prefer to know that before going because they would rather not knowingly associate with them.

OK, well, whatever. You could be sitting next to a suspected war criminal at the table and it wouldn't matter. Playing at the same poker game at a card room isn't associating with them.

A private home game, however.... Then I'd be worried about the spooks on my ass. lol

Maybe I was unclear. They aren't just playing in the games; they are also responsible for the games even existing (and profit from them regardless of whether they're playing or not). I've heard they have great player rewards, decent tournament structures, and the games can get super soft, so there's that.

OK, but who cares? It's completely irrelevant.

If you have a moral dilemma about playing in this poker room with lots of player benefits that is supposedly run by a criminal gang, then maybe don't play there?

That's exactly what I am suggesting. Am I still unclear? I'll try to change that. If you play here a decent amount of your money is being used by organized criminals.

And if you buy Phillip Morris cigarettes or Nike, you're supporting slavery.

I'm sorry, but what you're saying is just not a good reason not to play there.

If you pay taxes anywhere in QC, your money is used by organized criminals.

By far the crappiest poker room in the world. I'm not even kidding. Dim, depressive environment, rude condescending dealers, poorly run game, and to answer to your question, the game is not beatable.

The players may be dumber than a potato, but the rake is 10% per pot up to $10 ! That's an average of $33 per player per hour.

But wait, it is not 10%. That is a lie and mis-leading. They actually round up the sum of betting on each street before raking.

So for example:

Preflop: Raise to $8, call, call. That's $24. Rake = $3.

Flop: Bet $15, call, call. Another $45. Rake = $5.

River: For the sake of argument, we will say: Bet $7, call, fold. That's $14. Rake = $2.

That's an $83 pot and $10 was just taken out for the rake + the BBJ $1. How the **** are you going to beat a game like that?

As for player advantages and comps, zero. They give you absolutely nothing. You could play there for 20 hours and it won't even earn you a sandwich. The self-serving juice bar is pretty neat.

You're saying that Casino Montreal's rake is even higher than Playground's $7+$1, with much worse service? So when players like me finish playing each WSOP Montreal tournament this month, we should drive to Playground for cash games instead of staying at the Casino?

That's exactly what he's saying. I think.

Oh, btw, the 1-2-5 PLO game is where it's at.

This is not correct. The rake at Casino Montreal is significantly lower than at Playground. For example 2/5 is a $4 difference. But they also charge illegal underground game prices for their higher stakes games. I don't know why any professional would ever support this obvious rake trap.

Who are you saying charges "illegal underground game prices for their higher stakes games"? Your use of "they" right after Casino Montreal -and- Playground makes it unclear.

Also, what do "they" charge and how do you know the price they're charging is illegal?

La Casino Du Montreal charges a flat $10 rake on all games above 1/2. Playground charges a sliding scale from $14-$100+.

Illegal underground games often take very high rakes. Playground takes equivalent rakes for high stakes games as those charged by illegal underground games.

Regarding the initial post, here are my thoughts.

I've played online poker and ended up losing my $500 initial deposit over several 1000s of hands playing 10/20. I also lost $500 during my first time playing live poker in a casino in CO. Since then, I've read some books and studied videos online and cleaned up my play and plugged some leaks, but I would definitely not call myself a great player - I know how to play ABC poker and think that I'm pretty good at manipulating people with my image at the table.

Anyway, I've lived in Montreal for a bit and visited the casino there twice. First off, the rake is 10% max of $8 (not max of $10). It's true that there are no drink comps, but you CAN drink alc. at the tables (I've seen people online saying otherwise). It's also true that the face cards are RDV instead of KQJ, which threw me for a complete loop the first time I was dealt cards (and is so dumb - even in France they play KQJ cards, but it's the language laws here). So prep a little for this (it surprised me how hard it was to get over this minor issue).

The floor is nice, the wait times have never been bad for me, and the dealers are typically knowledgeable and friendly. The dealers all speak English and French, although the tables I've been at, everyone was speaking French, so if you're an anglophone like me, that puts you at a bit of an informational disadvantage.

The competition on weekend nights at the $1/2 tables is mixed, but I'd say 2/3 of players at my tables have been mediocre to weak, and I simply tried to avoid the best players (and there are some). You can pretty quickly differentiate the good from bad players by bet sizing and %fold preflop. The first time there, I was up nicely and lost a pretty bad beat and ended up down $65 and left after that hand. The next time playing cash games, I started with $200 and left with $600 playing very conservative A-B-C style and avoiding thin value spots. So even with the high rake, I'd say that the tables at the Montreal casino are worth your time if you're halfway decent.

also, personally, I would not play at the Playground. Aside from the organized crime comments above, take a look at the reviews on google - they're like 4.8/5. Then read them. Post after post saying "Best place to play poker in the world". Ummm hmmm... surprised google hasn't taken those down yet. Seems pretty obvious the business is posting those.

Don't be fooled by those who say everyone at 1-2 or 1-3 is some kind of oaf at poker. There are a lot ( a majority) of weak players certainly , but every table has a couple of recs who have learned a lot about the game over the years and play stronger. More rarely you will see players who play higher stakes but are on a downswing and taking a shot at a lower BI to rebuild their BR. You should try to spot these types quickly and deal with them differently than the majority of the folks you will come up against at these stakes.

Every post says it's the best is probably because it actually is the best poker room in North America. Canada for sure. Sure the cash game rake is really high, but they put on a phenomenal tournament series and always spread many cash games.



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A ridiculously high rake doesn't go hand in hand with the title of "the best poker room in North America" imo.

oddly enough, in french, QQ sounds like how a child would talk about someone's bottom end.


I'm moving to Montreal next year, great thread maybe I'll see some of you there

Go to playground it's much better action, dealers aren't terrible, and you get free food, only downside is getting there

How much I like a poker room is almost entirely dependent on how much money I make per hour.

What determines that is dependent on how weak the players are, which stakes run and how many tables of each, the buyin structure, how long it takes between leaving the house and being seated at a table, and of course the rake.

Rooms with higher than average rake have ranked highly on my list. Not because higher rake is better, but because the rooms with higher rake I have experienced just happened to excel in the other parts of the profit formula.

The point is that dismissing a room just based on the rake is really shortsighted. At least try playing there before deciding, because only you can really answer the other questions.

For some players, EV isn't even the most important factor. Maybe a room is less profitable but they like the atmosphere, or the free food or whatever.