I highly suspect this was the same.guy that got me.

I work for a bank that uses the Zelle service, and we have representatives who handle both fraud and non-fraud disputes involving Zelle, and others who retrieve wire transfers. It would depend upon the circumstances but Zelle transfers, and wires as well, can be taken back from the recipient.

Scammer Guy: Hey person I barely know, I'll give you zelle for cash.
Me: Nah I'm good.
Scammer Guy: Okay. :: looks around for next mark ::

At work a past ops director once got tricked into making a wire transfer. We got the money back. Wire transfers based on fraud can be reversed.

Fraud usually occurs when you wake up one morning and see an unauthorized zelle transaction debited from your account but if you voluntarily send someone money, it's gonna be hard to claim it's fraud. The bank will probably tell you if you want the money back just call your friend and tell them to send it back to you. They don't just say "ok it's fraud, no problem let's reverse it". They open up a dispute case and contact the recieving bank of which the player will say "What do you mean he wants his money back? I gave him cash for that zelle transaction".

paypal is commonly used to scam

you can do a transaction and then they can contest it later

even if you had already moved the money out of paypal, they'll just deduct it from your bank

very similar to the scam where people write a bad check for 10k, saying they don't have a bank but if you cash it for them you can keep $100, they cash it, hand the guy $9,900, two weeks later the check bounces and their bank account is -10k

it's much more difficult to scam on paypal if it's via the friends and family option but still possible - it's incredibly easy if they do it as a vendor

the one time it happened to me, the guy just wanted like $20 to take a cab home because he was busto, i agreed because at worst i'm out $20 and if he's telling the truth then he really does need that money to get home from the casino (this was before uber was a thing so obviously a while back)

as he's getting ready to send, i'm telling him to do it via friends and family, he doesn't, claims he fat fingered it and says "no big deal, I have a few bucks in change in I can give you back to cover that fee" i instead refund it and tell him to try again without the fee as that's silly - he suddenly lost interest in dealing with me and acted offended "why you gotta be bish over a few dollars" and went to someone else who agreed to spot him the money in exchange for paypal again he does the business vendor option

never see that guy again, next time I see the guy who gave him the $20, he apologizes to me, says he couldn't believe that guy would actually scam $20 when he was just trying to get home after losing like 3k but sure enough the next day he got a notice from paypal that the payment was disputed and taken away


i can't speak for the other apps, but do not use paypal amongst people you don't trust

frankly, am surprised venmo doesn't have dispute options given paypal is their parent company so that is surprising

it can still be disputed, it's just 50x more difficult for them to do so

but... if they say the "magic word" that it was a gambling debt then paypal will be much more likely to side on their favor as they don't want anything to do with being the mode of settling illegal gambling debts

ty for this, valuable info, especially since the perception was zelle was spotless

I would like to know how you would be able to send someone a zelle transfer in a casino, then call your bank to tell them the transfer you just sent was fraud?

Giving someone cash who first zelle's you is as secure as it can be. It's hard for the other guy to say he gave you the money due to fraud.

https://www.aura.com/learn/i-got-sca...e-what-do-i-do

My policy has always been to say "Sorry, I don't have any of those apps".

Even if I don't get stiffed, I don't want any financial ties to some random people I don't know in a poker room.

Since it will NOT be completely scam proof I will know whatever entity; whether a bank, a financial company, or the government that tells me it is scam proof is lying to me.

Yes I think western Union might be the only one that you can’t reverse

Many ppl are very weary of anything dealing with $ and no matter what you say they will never trust payment apps. Especially in the context of a gambler sending it to them for cash. For those people you're drawing dead as they've already decided theyre not taking part in these transactions at all. That is their prerogative, can't fault someone for protecting themselves.

However the truth of the matter is only under rare circumstance is there any risk to app for cash swaps. You aren't going to get investigated bc you did some random venmo with someone unless its some outlier circumstance like human trafficking mentioned above. And even then I don't see anything happening to you as you've done nothing wrong and its not like an agent during a criminal investigation is going to come across your transaction and a full blown financial audit is then going to take place. In theory sure the risk exists but I don't see this ever happening.

For obvious reasons the best option is to do the swap with crypto. Sure the person has to already use crypto but far and away you've got the best chance of finding someone who will take your btc for cash if you're the one who is needing cash. Overseas crypto is really your only option for a live p2p as most of the payment apps are only US based.

For non crypto Zelle is the best both as the sender and receiver. I'd say its 99.99% safe to use and is what I always ask to have sent to me if Im the one being asked for cash. Everyone has Zelle nowadays if they have a bank account. If they say they don't have/use Zelle then they're very likely lying and just dont want to do the swap. This is good to take note of as if they dont have the spine to just say no and instead try to lie or play dumb then they're a giant f----t which is quite exploitable. If anyone reading this doesnt have Zelle I'd love to hear.

However as an alternative to doing an app for cash swap just go to the cage and get cashback. This is also the best suggestion to give if someone asks if they can send you app for cash as its available to anyone with money in their account. The limits are high too as its the daily spend limit on the account which can be raised by calling support. My bank will waive the fee to do this however I don't think thats very common. The fees are pretty high its like $115 for $3k, and credit card can be even higher, however it avoids all the hassle that comes with asking someone for app swap.

If you travel international get a Schwab checking account as they will give you the exact exchange rate on any atm/money service worldwide. They also give you the exact rate if you use your card at restaurants/shops etc which is reason to get it alone as its amazingly convenient. But in the context of needing a large sum of fiat for gambo/poker in a foreign country this card solves the problem for you.

To be extra safe if you are accepting app money that isn't zelle, insist on only accepting if the money is already in the balance on that app. If its in the balance there is zero chance whatsoever of a chargeback as you know they didnt fund the transaction fraudulently via stolen cc and its cc's that open the door for chargebacks not the apps themselves.

I don't. I never have used it and don't see myself trying to anytime soon. I am not a Luddite either. My wife uses Zelle all the time in her business and some in private. I provide "tech support" for her business and I am fully aware how it works, that it is safe, etc. It is just I have zero need for it.

If I need cash I have access to more than I need. If I am buying or paying for something, I can pay cash. If the person/vendor refuses cash (and I am still willing to deal with them since I will walk away from someone who won't take cash for a reasonable amount), I have CC's, I have paper checks (though not likely to use that instead of Zelle), etc.

I simply have never needed Zelle and don't see a likely scenario where I need to. But if I did, I would but not to give some stranger in a casino cash. BTW, of the other options mentioned the only one I have used i PayPal and that only a handfull or less times. Like I said, not a form of business I see a need to pursue.

Edit...BTW, I expect there far more of me out there than you realize. I have seen the look on peoples faces when my wife asks or suggests Zelle. There are "oodles" of people who don't even know what it is much less have never used it.;

I sold some crypto ($500 usd worth) years ago on Localbitcoins. Buyer paid me via zelle.

Woke up one morning to find my bank, Wells Fargo, had taken the money out of my balance because the buyer paid me with stolen funds, i.e. they transferred money from an account that wasn't theirs. When the account's owner noticed the missing funds, they notified their bank, Chase, and reported fraud.

Though I was not the one that committed fraud, they recaptured the money from MY account and there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it.

I talked with Wells Fargo's fraud department to explain the crypto sale on localbitcoins, and even sent them a link to the transaction on the localbitcoins website. I soon realized that I was probably their sole suspected perpetrator and that I had willfully divulged I used a personal checking account for a "business transaction". I let them know that I thought it was bogus that they made me eat the loss for their lack of ability to keep their customer's funds safe.

Long story short, Zelle transactions can be reversed, and when that happens, you're up schitt's creek.

If Zelle reversed the transaction, then why did you call Wells Fargo? They essentially saw money coming in and then money coming out.
In any case you are the one who lacked the ability to keep the funds safe.
And btw this was not a "business transaction", unless you had a huge volume selling and buying crypto and made a profit off it. In either case, it's legitimate to use a personal checking acct for business conducted without being incorporated.

"A fool and his money are soon parted"