1 2 nl hold em game. $5 straddle on under the gun.
3 players call $5. action gets to the small blind who has a red $5 chp out
for his $1 blind.the small blind pulls back the $5 chip and throws out a
green $25 chip without saying anything.

is this a call or a raise?

I would call it a raise and if anyone objects I'll let the floor decide. Then it could go either way.

Many will insist this is a call. Good place to say raise and make sure the dealer hears you.

It's 100% a call.

That's always been a call anywhere I've played

That would be a raise imo. If it was a call, the red would’ve got that done if I read it right. I would think if he didn’t say raise to 10,15,20 etc it would be a raise to 25.

It's a call. It's one spot where I wouldn't argue if someone said it was a raise though. My best case scenario is having a well trained dealer stop the action and clarify with the player what he's trying to do, then educate him to verbalize next time.

It’s definitely not “100% a call”. Pretty sure a lot of people in here have seen that situation ruled a raise even though they didn’t agree with it. And others have seen it ruled a call even though they didn’t agree with it.

I wouldn’t even trust that different floors in the same card room rule it the same way.

If I was the dealer, I would announce “raise to 25”. If anyone objects, including the player who put out the chip, I’d call for the floor to let him handle it.

Appeal to floor/dealer mistake is hardly a convincing argument. Ask the floor to make a ruling on a half bet/action vs raise ruling in limit, many will get it wrong. But by the rules this is a call 100%.

Rule 44

“If facing a bet or blind, pushing out a single oversized chip (including your last chip) is a call if raise isn’t first declared. To raise with an overchip you must declare raise before the chip hits the table surface.“

https://www.pokertda.com/view-poker-tda-rules/

What if it is the BB? Straddler? Pulling back a chip that meets call and replacing with larger makes it a raise IMO. There was no need to touch the red so doing so the molies action change.

Wish I had thought of that.

At FW 10 years ago this got called a call. I was upset for all of the Fore mentioned reasons.

Then a few years ago it got called a raise at FW.

I checked and they said they had changed the rule. Once a player takes back his chip(s) that would have been a call, the replacement bet, if it meets the criteria for a raise, will be deemed a raise even if it is just one chip.

Regardless, even if I was playing at FW I would not do this. I would make it $26. I now always use 2+ chips when I raise or I say "raise" before I put my single chip out there.

I will always put the two chips out there rather than say raise where possible. It has happened (maybe once or twice) that people have made massive raises (like all in) which I didn't see or didn't hear and when I said "Call" or "Raise" I was bound to that action. If I had put my raise out there I probably would have been able to argue that because I wasn't aware of the prior raise I could just forfeit my bet.

The problem is that rule 46 changes things. But the specific wording it uses doesn't perfectly clearly indicate it covers this scenario.
It's not fully clear whether this is supposed to cover this case, because it uses the phrase "the combined final chip bet", and in this case there is only a single chip in that "final" bet.

But absent a rule that more directly applies, I would use this rule as being the governing rule, and rule it a raise to $25. It is more specific than rule 44, covering the case where the player had previously bet chips not yet pulled in, so I would say it overrules the more general rule 44 which would indicate that it would be ruled a call.

In our room if the chip already out there covers the bet they are facing, then pulling it back and putting out a larger chip is a raise. Eg in our 1/2 nl (we have both $1 and $2 chips) when the small blind has a $1 chip out, if he pulls it back and puts out a 5, its a call. But if he has a $2 chip out and pulls it back and puts out a 5, its a raise.

A related situation that often comes up, is the same situation, put rather than pulling the chip back, the player silently tosses out the 5 chip in addition to the 1 or 2 chip. In the small blind With a $1 chip, its just a call, though the players think they are raising to6.

So the OP would be ruled a raise.

Question: if I call $25 with a single chip, and it gets raised behind to $50, then I pull my single chip and replace it with a single $100 is that a raise or a call

Seems like a raise also seems like a call. Most of my full time experience is at e tables. I'm feeling rusty not playing over a year

It is a call.

Thanks

It’s definitely at least a call. If would be best to announce your intentions before you slide out the black one. If I was acting behind you I would ask the dealer is that a call or raise if it wasn’t announced by you or the dealer yet. I could see this being a situation where someone may say it was only a call if the player behind you popped it way up or all in. Just seems like a angle to me. But I’m no authority on it, just my opinion.

I felt it was a call but started leveling myself

Sounds like its a close call.

Raise. But would certainly expect floors to rule differently at least some of the time.

Logically, using the bigger chip only serves to slow the game down, so the player's intention to raise is relatively clear.

Players at the table who want to limp cheaply are likely to argue otherwise, otherwise this would be more cut and dry.

Even though it seems that his intent was to raise, I can't find any way to interpret the rules as anything other than a call.

The only thing that comes close is the argument that the single oversized chip rule does not apply when you pull a chip back. For example. Blinds are T25\T50, and it is limped around to the SB. If he pulls back his T25 chip, and tosses it back out with a T100 chip, this is always considered a raise, though if he just put the t100 chip out without touching the t25 chip, this would always be a call.

In this sense, you could maybe argue that pulling the previous chip back makes the oversized chipo rule not apply, but I think this is very much a stretch. I think it is more accurate to say that when you pull a chip back, tossing it out makes it count as a seperate chip, so the single chip rule does not apply. But that is not the case here. In this case, you are only tossing out a single chip. So it has to be treated as a undeclared action with a single oversized chip. Which is always a call.

Now, I think it is fine for the dealer to clarify this. But I also think it is fine to rule it a call. I don't think I can be Ok calling this a raise with clairification

I made a comment about this too, then deleted my post after reading the Rule 46 addendum, which imo contradicts the written rule:

I say it is a call. Here is the ambiguity. Think of a tournament where the chips have much higher value, but it applies here also. This player is the small blind, he puts out the green $25 chip. The big blind immediately says, "all in."
It folds around and the small blind now says, "that was a call, can I get my change?"

It opens up the possibility of an angle. That is why there should be one rule only.

So the small blind:

1. Has posted a chip that already covers the call.
2. Waits until the action is on him.
3. Silently swaps the chip out with another chip that also covers the call.
4. Hears the big blind say "all in".
5. Waits for the action to reach him again.
6. Asks for change.

And you what, give him change? A lot of the angles you guys come up with rely on conspiratorial or comically incompetent floors and a loose definition of "ambiguous".

You are right, those illustrations make rule 46 less clear, not more. The situations outlined do not line up with the logical branching points in the rule. What a mess.

Rule 46 says that it's a raise because the previously bet chips covered the bet, but the illustration says it's a call because it was fully pulled back and replaced by an overchip. Total cluster****.

I would still rule it a raise, because in my head the primary rule is: if you already have enough out to call, then anything you do to increase the value of chips put or left out there should be evaluated in the context of the 50% rule as a potential raise.