Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? - Page 5 - Poker Card Room

The strength of character to do what YOU think is right regardless of others opinion.

Whether enforcing the raise is an ethical thing to do is highly debatable. But I'm making another point. If you think it is - you should go for it despite possible and even somewhat likely social condemnation.

Literally the first reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmccoy87

I think you already know the answer here.

This thread is not about doing what you think is right despite condemnation. You know that's a strawman, otherwise you'd be able to identify someone here or anywhere who disagrees with you. Go ahead.

If you're first thought after reading OP's comments is he definitely knew in his heart that what he was doing was right, or he definitely isn't now trying to rationalize unethical behavior that he knew was wrong, then that's your problem and it makes sense that you'd come in here swinging at ghosts. But I suspect you were looking for a pedestal and think you found one.

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10-05-2017 , 11:48 AM

#102

Ray Zee

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when playing for money expect to be penalized for stupid things you do.
dont forget those are your opponents . and they will be quick to call a string bet on you or fouled hand.

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10-06-2017 , 10:11 AM

#103

Bene Gesserit

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It would have been better to enforce the raise if the "jokers" cards could have been retrieved and returned after the attempted muck. Guess that was not what the dealer chose (or could) do in this case. I would feel a little odd about insisting on the raise when the guy has no cards, even though it was his fault. I don't condemn the OP or the ruling , however, just because I would likely have handled it differently.

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10-06-2017 , 07:30 PM

#104

Ray Zee

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suppose someone says raise and means to raise and instead of putting the money in makes the mistake of throwing his cards away. then does he not have to put any money in?

or a nit bets on the end and you say call and then quickly muck. is it not a call.
but is it a call if he isnt a nit.

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10-07-2017 , 12:42 AM

#105

Bene Gesserit

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^ I don't really care, sorry, I just think the "joker" or guys in your examples should at least get their cards back if the raises are ruled valid. Sometime the cards won't be retreivable of course, but often they might be. Ruling whether the "joke " raises are valid is the job of the dealer and floor IMHO.

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10-07-2017 , 11:01 AM

#106

mrtnfisher

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 270

Yes it is the job of the dealer and the floor. But when they do not do their job properly, it’s up to the player to protect his own interests.

BTW, the cards were not retrievable, and even if they were, a rule at the sands is that once cards are pushed face down over the line, the hand is dead.

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10-07-2017 , 11:33 AM

#107

Koko the munkey

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtnfisher

BTW, the cards were not retrievable, and even if they were, a rule at the sands is that once cards are pushed face down over the line, the hand is dead.

Sounds like they have some pretty terrible rules there.

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10-07-2017 , 03:42 PM

#108

Bene Gesserit

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtnfisher

OK , not retrievable, then that's it. However, that line rule is a little strict IMHO, especially if the dealer/floor ruling is that the raise must stand.

House rules are house rules certainly.

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10-13-2017 , 06:19 PM

#109

JoseJohnnyJimJack

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Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 981

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko the munkey

Sounds like they have some pretty terrible rules there.

I don't think I'd mind that rule if I played there. Sounds like an additional application of the forward motion rule.

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10-15-2017 , 01:50 AM

#110

ILikeToParty

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,496

I'm glad I'm not op

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10-15-2017 , 12:46 PM

#111

Julio

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtnfisher

Playing 1/2 at the Sands in PA when this situation came up:

I had just switched tables and for a full two hours I am completely card dead, playing zero hands, and of course people are noticing. Finally I pick up AK suited in middle position following two limpers including the table calling station on my immediate right.

I raise to 50. Folds around to the first caller. He laughs, says "raise" and mucks!
Of course he's just kidding around, but I enforce the raise and the floor agreed. So he puts in his 100 (actually only 98 for the min raise) with no cards.

What would you have done here?

By the way, calling station calls the 100 cold with J5, I jam and he calls off his last 75 and I win a nice pot.

I wouldn't have called the floor.

From your perspective, I can see why you did. You were dry for a few hours and you finally pick up AKs. It seems like he never had the intention of raising and he was just joking around. Had he said "raise" with the intention of getting a reaction out of you, saw the reaction, then folded, you ought to have enforced the raise regardless of anything else. But that's not what happened here.............

Oh well! Next time.

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10-15-2017 , 08:53 PM

#112

Ray Zee

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some here may have missed post #24 where the so called joker also called out op's hand to the table as well. he was intentionally trying to ruin the op's action in the hand. whether it sounded like a joke or not that is how it is.

no one i know of would think it was funny and would look to make him pay for that. and so he did.

the player that did it was a seasoned player in that game not a rank beginner in a friday night 25 cent game.

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10-18-2017 , 03:31 PM

#113

Noles1724

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 453

I had a 'joke' cost me once

sitting in the 9 seat, seat 8 throws the dealer a black chip for change but when he tossed it to the dealer it rolled by me and it happen to be my turn to act.. thinking I was being funny (not really) I pointed at the chip and said I bet $100. It was clear as day that I was referring to the chip in front of me that wasn't mine.. dealer held me to my verbal.. this happened kind of early in my days and was a costly lesson.

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10-18-2017 , 09:09 PM

#114

Ray Zee

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exactly and a good lesson learned. however also remember the dealer cant hold you to anything as it becomes a floor decision that you should ask for anytime you think you can win it.

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10-25-2017 , 04:19 PM

#115

BanjoFetz

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Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 18

If I joke about choking you to death would you insist I actually do it?

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10-25-2017 , 04:47 PM

#116

GTsO

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Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ship It Or Bust

Anyone who tells you it was wrong to enforce the raise, feels the rules of the game can be bent.

It's pretty difficult to write any set of rules to completely obviate any need for later interpretation. When those situations arise, you hope that the interpretations are rendered in the best interest of the game as a whole. In this case, if the joker was clearly or likely angling, then yes, enforce the raise. If the joker was clearly or likely just joking, it's poor form to enforce it imo.

I want folks joking / having a good time / not embarrassed by minor mistakes when playing with me.

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10-25-2017 , 08:42 PM

#117

Koko the munkey

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

A minor mistake is throwing in $10 instead of $5 when two $5 calls are close enough together to make you think it's really $10.

The "mistake" in this thread was deliberate, and at least an order of magnitude more offensive to the integrity of the game. I have a hard time believing that anyone could seriously categorize this as a minor mistake.

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10-26-2017 , 03:54 AM

#118

WereBeer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BanjoFetz

If I joke about choking you to death would you insist I actually do it?

If I joke about paying you for working for me would you insist I actually do it?

Oh look, seems like the subject of a joke makes a difference to the answer.

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10-26-2017 , 07:30 AM

#119

tellypl

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Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 939

Late to the party, but this is how to make someone never want to come back in a game that’s shrinking already...does nobody care about the future?

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10-26-2017 , 02:00 PM

#120

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tellypl

Late to the party, but this is how to make someone never want to come back in a game that’s shrinking already...does nobody care about the future?

Despite the shrinking player base, I would much prefer a future in which douchebags don't come back to poker.

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10-26-2017 , 03:18 PM

#121

tellypl

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 939

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Despite the shrinking player base, I would much prefer a future in which douchebags don't come back to poker.

I was referring to OP being OOL - so I think we're on the same page?

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10-26-2017 , 03:25 PM

#122

chillrob

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tellypl

I was referring to OP being OOL - so I think we're on the same page?

No, I think the OP was fine - the "joker" who called out his hand was the douchebag there, and I hope he never plays poker again.

Why aren't you worried about someone like the OP being scared away from playing poker again when people mock him and state his hole cards out loud to the entire table?

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10-26-2017 , 06:25 PM

#123

Ray Zee

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if someone calls out my hole cards whether in the hand or not i am getting even any way i can in the game. he becomes your worst enemy as he is personally trying to sabotage your winnings.

as far as him faking a raise, that is him being an idiot. and also needs to be punished so he learns.

plus this guy doing it was not a newbie to the game