Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"?

09-24-2017 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Spewing, would you feel the same if he had said this exactly? "Ha ha, this rock sits there for 2 hours and doesn't play a hand, and then he raises a few $2 limpers to $50. He must have a premium hand. Probably AK, maybe Aces or Kings. Anyone would have to be an idiot to call his bet. So I'm all in. (Mucks his hand). Just kidding."

Because effectively, he said and did the same thing.
So, there are three issues at play here

1. Should he, by rules, be held to the raise-absolutely. For all the reasons listed here, even a joking declaration can be enforced if the floor is involved
2. Should a player, knowing that the joke did not affect action and knowing that it was a joke with no intent, call the floor to enforce the declaration-If they do so, they are acting like jerks and being a bit scummy
3. Did this player deserve it-based on other facts about his behavior (calling out a hand in multiway action with action behind), you could justifiably say that he deserved it

I stand by the idea that it is a scummy thing to do. If you want to argue that some players deserve a scummy response, I won't necessarily argue with you on that (though I personally wouldn't have done it, I can see how some people would consider this justice)
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Of course he meant for someone to consider it serious .... that's why he did it. he thinks it's funny because he wanted someone to think he was raising .. perhaps he wanted them to only think this momentarily ... but he wanted them to think this.

he might think its funny because he wanted the bettor to be scared or excited by the raise only to be deflated later (ha ha ha). Or he might think its funny because he thinks its other players are thinking .... he has to be an idiot to raise into the rocks oversized raise ha ha ... made you think I was an idiot but I';m really not "ha ha ha"
If a guys is laughing while he says it, and is the process of mucking, his joke is not based around the idea that someone will take his action seriously, but about how that ridiculous that action would be. If the OP had hinted that he or another player took the statement seriously and reacted, i would agree with you.

We are going down a rabbit hole on the psychology of humor, neither one of us will be able to convince the other at this point.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
If a guys is laughing while he says it, and is the process of mucking, his joke is not based around the idea that someone will take his action seriously, but about how that ridiculous that action would be. If the OP had hinted that he or another player took the statement seriously and reacted, i would agree with you.

We are going down a rabbit hole on the psychology of humor, neither one of us will be able to convince the other at this point.
You seem to be making the argument that the line of enforcement in the situation described in OP should be whether or not anyone takes the false action seriously or not. Do you see how problematic that particular line is to enforce? Do you think that, as a floor, you would want to be placed in a position to judge whether another player reacted or not to the false action? Or do you think you would prefer that the line of enforcement to be based on something more concrete, such as what the acting player said or did?

I would prefer the second approach, both from a floor's and from a player's perspective. I would not want to play in a casino where in a situation like this a ruling might come down to how well a particular floor knows a particular player. Nor would I want to make floor decisions based on whether or not another player reacted.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
You seem to be making the argument that the line of enforcement in the situation described in OP should be whether or not anyone takes the false action seriously or not. Do you see how problematic that particular line is to enforce? Do you think that, as a floor, you would want to be placed in a position to judge whether another player reacted or not to the false action? Or do you think you would prefer that the line of enforcement to be based on something more concrete, such as what the acting player said or did?

I would prefer the second approach, both from a floor's and from a player's perspective. I would not want to play in a casino where in a situation like this a ruling might come down to how well a particular floor knows a particular player. Nor would I want to make floor decisions based on whether or not another player reacted.
Let me make sure I am clear on this. Once the floor is involved, the ruling is pretty clear. He could, in theory, use rule 1 to disallow the raise, but is very unlikely to do so. The floor will rightfully enforce this 99% of the time.

That isn't my point. the questions posed by OP was ,as a player, was it OK to call the floor to enforce a raise where there was no intention of raising, and neither the players nor the dealers seriously thought he was declaring a raise. My point is that, while this is in the rules, this is scummy, or at the very least, distasteful. I put it in the same category of behaviors like stiffing dealers, angle shooting, switching games constantly to go south, etc. While they may be allowed by the rules, they are against the spirit of the game.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 04:19 PM
Well I actually agree that ideally OP shouldn't have called the floor, because the dealer should have immediately called the floor. I don't think you can fault the OP for insisting the dealer do his job when he was derelict in doing so.

Would you have liked it better if, instead of saying "that's a raise", OP would have stopped the action, saying "Hold on everyone! Dealer, please call the floor to clarify that action"?
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Well I actually agree that ideally OP shouldn't have called the floor, because the dealer should have immediately called the floor. I don't think you can fault the OP for insisting the dealer do his job when he was derelict in doing so.

Would you have liked it better if, instead of saying "that's a raise", OP would have stopped the action, saying "Hold on everyone! Dealer, please call the floor to clarify that action"?
If it was obvious to everyone that it was a joke, I would have liked it better if the player did nothing, and then said, after the hand 1) don't jokingly declare action, and 2) don't comment on hands when there is action pending.

If you have to call the floor, I would just stop play, ask the dealer to call the floor, and then factually explain what just happened with no indication of what outcome I would prefer. But I wouldn't do that in this case.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 06:40 PM
OP, I would have given jokester a tiny bit of leeway and allowed him to choose his fate by telling him, "You know I can hold you to that raise, right?
If he replies, "No I didn't know(or yes I do). Sorry about that". Then I let it go.
If he replies, "No you can't. I was joking and threw my hand in". Then I enforce the raise.

But that's just me. Him saying raise and calling out your hand are 2 actions to mess with you, so I have no problem with you messing with him back and enforcing the raise.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-24-2017 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
That is not context. That is merely OP's conclusion. (perhaps drawn from context perhaps drawn from offender's explanation)
Nah, that is context. You are just rejecting the context provided to us. Nobody here is reading "Of course he's just kidding" to mean "It was not obvious whether he was kidding, but then he explained himself". That would require a special effort.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-25-2017 , 01:50 AM
This is what's wrong with poker. Too many uptight d-bags that pedantically nitpick the game to where it's no fun. You don't play a hand for 2 hours and then get a guy trying to have a good time on a technicality for making a bad joke. It's your type that I find myself surrounded by at the table that suck any fun out of it. You're playing a game for f-sakes. Don't forget it.This is why you asked this here, because you feel like a douche and were hoping for some confirmation bias to make you feel better. You're not going to get rich playing 1/2 or 2/5. Try and have some fun.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-28-2017 , 04:09 PM
How do you define "OK"? In term of rules? Ethically? I think the guy was an idiot and you making him pay for it is A-OK on both counts.

Well done.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
09-28-2017 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurredelevens
This is what's wrong with poker. Too many uptight d-bags that pedantically nitpick the game to where it's no fun. You don't play a hand for 2 hours and then get a guy trying to have a good time on a technicality for making a bad joke. It's your type that I find myself surrounded by at the table that suck any fun out of it. You're playing a game for f-sakes. Don't forget it.This is why you asked this here, because you feel like a douche and were hoping for some confirmation bias to make you feel better. You're not going to get rich playing 1/2 or 2/5. Try and have some fun.
LOL. Boohoo. The "raise" guy is an idiot. Teaching him a lesson is wholesome and + karma. Trust me he will never do that again.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-01-2017 , 04:14 AM
i look at it like this. by his joke and calling my hand to the table he is basically telling the table i am playing real tight. even if they know it already. so he is trying to cost me money, so i owe him no courtesy for his actions. i call the floor and complain real loud to get the ruling to go my way.

if i knew the guy and was friendly with him i let it pass, or if he was the live one as well.
but this wasnt a 5 dollar bet it was a 100. and we are playing to capitalize on our opponents mistakes.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-01-2017 , 06:18 AM
I'd do it against a total dick, so we could otherwise have a convo on who is the bigger dick. Otherwise, don't think I'd do that. It's kind'a desperate.

add: Ray's comment makes a lot of sense to me. It is dickish to tell the table I have a strong hand, and absolutely against your interest ("soft collusion"). So yeah, time to be a dick and call the floor.

Players have held me to unintentional raises much much more benign than this, so I'm inclined to hold them to it, and the poker ecosystem is a cluster-f already.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-02-2017 , 06:37 PM
This is pure scum move by OP. I wouldn't trust him with a dollar to buy me a piece of gum. If the dealer halted action and called the floor on his own that's one thing and that's the dealer, but for you to do it is skeevy.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-02-2017 , 07:20 PM
may be for a 5 dollar game but when players have hundreds on the table they have no right to be in your business or sabotaging your play. the op did say the person called out his hand with action yet. that is a big no no in my book. and something done in only the smallest friendly games for peanuts.
i would make him pay. let him learn the rules and the etiquette of poker at his expense.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-03-2017 , 10:51 AM
Villian is cheating and joking about it.

Call the floor and enforce the raise.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 10-03-2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason: tapa
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-04-2017 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
may be for a 5 dollar game but when players have hundreds on the table they have no right to be in your business or sabotaging your play. the op did say the person called out his hand with action yet. that is a big no no in my book. and something done in only the smallest friendly games for peanuts.
i would make him pay. let him learn the rules and the etiquette of poker at his expense.
I agree. I don't know why some have assumed that villain calling out OP's hand is just saying something the whole table knew already. Some players at the table don't pay attention or are new to the table. So it very well could have costed OP a call.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-04-2017 , 04:21 PM
The part that makes it scummy to me is OP pulled this move after V mucked. It's taking his chips with no chance. If dealer pushed his cards back and called the floor it's a little different.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-04-2017 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
Villian is cheating and joking about it.

Call the floor and enforce the raise.
He's a terrible cheat. He just threw $200 in the pot with 0.0% equity.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-04-2017 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkatruck
He's a terrible cheat. He just threw $200 in the pot with 0.0% equity.
Because you didn't let him get away with minimizing your strategy. Otherwise you'd sing about his success.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 10-04-2017 at 04:24 PM. Reason: tapa
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-05-2017 , 03:05 AM
What a success that would have been, the reward of getting away with a lame joke and not being freerolled by a scumbag and his accomplice. Huge gains.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-05-2017 , 03:29 AM
op is a scumbag for enforcing this although technically it is a raise
it's gonna be funny when he gets angled
not shocking he's the type to play no hands then raise 25x the blinds with ak
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-05-2017 , 05:11 AM
It takes balls to call the floor and get this enforced because certainly some people will judge you negatively or very negatively for that. But that's where your strength of character comes in. You have to value your opinion of yourself higher than others opinion of yourself. This is what often separates winners in life from losers. The strength of character to do what YOU think is right regardless of others opinion.

Whether enforcing the raise is an ethical thing to do is highly debatable. But I'm making another point. If you think it is - you should go for it despite possible and even somewhat likely social condemnation.

Too many people live their lives according to others judgement. **** that.

OP has balls. But OP, here's next level **** for next time. Next time just do what you feel is right and don't ask the peanut gallery on 2P2 what they think. Just be confident in your "take" on things, life, etc. Don't seek validation from others, especially on issues of ethics and morals.

Last edited by Olaff; 10-05-2017 at 05:18 AM.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-05-2017 , 06:29 AM
What olaf said
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote
10-05-2017 , 10:38 AM
At the table, in a live game, where money is at stake, is not the place to be making jokes like this. I don't care if the jokester is a newbie player, or he's just having fun, or he's had too many drinks and doesn't realize he spoke out loud.

He said "raise". Verbal is binding. The dealer should have called the floor to hold him to the raise, not make the other player the bad guy for insisting.

Anyone who tells you it was wrong to enforce the raise, feels the rules of the game can be bent. This is not a case for bending the rules. I say **** that guy and his joke raise, make him put the money in, and take the pot. That's what you're there for.
Is it OK to insist on enforcing a joke "raise"? Quote

      
m