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Old 10-13-2021, 07:44 AM   #26
madlex
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player View Post
No, not at all.
The way he said it implies twice, although he knows from the start that he doesn't want to, so it's clearly an angle to either get information or get me on tilt.
That’s obviously possible. Another option, based on your wording in the OP, would be that he was annoyed by you thinking “for a while”. That’s something only you can know.

If somebody went into the tank about RIT I would say F that, just do it once. But I would do it before you say twice, not after.

FWIW, even if the offer to RIT was a binding statement, e.g. “let’s do it twice” - “OK”, would any floor rule the question “do you want to RIT” binding? Technically, I don’t see how that’s different from “do you want me to call?”.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:07 AM   #27
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
That’s obviously possible. Another option, based on your wording in the OP, would be that he was annoyed by you thinking “for a while”. That’s something only you can know.

If somebody went into the tank about RIT I would say F that, just do it once. But I would do it before you say twice, not after.

FWIW, even if the offer to RIT was a binding statement, e.g. “let’s do it twice” - “OK”, would any floor rule the question “do you want to RIT” binding? Technically, I don’t see how that’s different from “do you want me to call?”.
I get your point and also agree, if somebody does that to me, i do the same (say once).

But i wasn't actually that long, me saying "a while" was kind of misleading, because i usually say twice immediately, so even thinking for a second or two is unusual for me, hence saying a while.

But again, we established the main point, that the floor ruling was correct.
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Old 10-13-2021, 08:07 AM   #28
moginsburg
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

I've been playing some PLO at parx lately and it amazes me on these huge pots the dealer runs it twice just based on a simple convo with no hand signals for cameras

player a - once or twice
player b - twice

dealer immed deals turn and river.

I would think they would want the players involved to flash the number 2 sign from their hands for the cameras or have the dealer put out a '2' chip (which they do maybe half the time).

Just seems so open to angle like if you win the first board saying I never agreed to twice I said no thanks not yes (especially if wearing a mask)
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Old 10-13-2021, 09:28 AM   #29
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player View Post
Have to disagree here.
It's not that he said "Hey, i wanted your general opinion on running it twice, how do you think about it"?

He said "you wanna go twice?", which clearly implies that he wants to go twice as well, otherwise why bother asking.
Thing is implications aren't binding. If its not part of the rule set no house will want any part of enforcing it.

This is similar to when players say "If I fold will you show me your hand?" and the other player says "yes" and the first player folds and the second player doesn't show. The house isn't going to make him show.

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Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player View Post
No, not at all.
The way he said it implies twice, although he knows from the start that he doesn't want to, so it's clearly an angle to either get information or get me on tilt.
Its not an angle. Players do a lot of things to get players to go on tilt. And the only kind of info that he could get from you is whether or not you want to play a high variance kind of game rather than playing it twice to mitigate. Which could give him critical info in terms of bluffing you and whether or not you would call.

But ultimately the guy is a jerk who you find out you can't trust. This to me is more valuable info than anything else that happened.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:23 AM   #30
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by moginsburg View Post
I've been playing some PLO at parx lately and it amazes me on these huge pots the dealer runs it twice just based on a simple convo with no hand signals for cameras

player a - once or twice
player b - twice

dealer immed deals turn and river.

I would think they would want the players involved to flash the number 2 sign from their hands for the cameras or have the dealer put out a '2' chip (which they do maybe half the time).

Just seems so open to angle like if you win the first board saying I never agreed to twice I said no thanks not yes (especially if wearing a mask)
Well, hand signals and other confirmation they only do when it's a casino game like black jack for example, and so, it's the casino's money.

when it's just players money they actually don't care that much.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:24 AM   #31
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post

But ultimately the guy is a jerk who you find out you can't trust. This to me is more valuable info than anything else that happened.
Well, i knew that already before the hand, but true, that was strong confirmation ;-))
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:25 PM   #32
borg23
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

he can change his mind before the dealer deals.
i've long ago stopped running it twice. but when i did if i asked someone once or twice and they thought for more than a couple of seconds or asked me what I had i told the dealer once (before they finally answered)
i think him waiting until you actually answered is kind of douchey though.

People who tank when deciding to go once or twice or brutal. You're already making the entire table wait extra time to reduce your variance, don't make it worse by tanking on this decision.

Last edited by borg23; 10-13-2021 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 03:28 PM   #33
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
I have seen plenty of
“Once or twice?”
“Up to you”
“I don’t care”
“Once”

Sometimes with the escalation that the guy who was asked first didn’t like that the asker didn’t request twice
hahah this always cracks me up.
i've definitely seen it where one guy wants twice but doesn't want to admit it, so hopes the other guys says twice and is then pissed of when he doesn't.

then you have the "i always go once but we can go twice" guys who go twice 95 percent of the time.

finally in places where thrice is allowed someone says "i only go one or three". 90 percent of them immediately back down like the cowards they are when they are told once "whoa whoa whoa we can go twice if you want."
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Old 10-14-2021, 03:16 PM   #34
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

Feel like I remember the rio allowing run it twice but not ruling on it, but not positive. I started going once when it became a mess.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:17 AM   #35
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

I have been cheated by player agreeing to running it twice and then reneging after the turn improved him and the casino saying they could not enforce player agreements so I doubt they would ever enforce this.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:33 AM   #36
FrankTheTankTapper
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99 View Post
I have been cheated by player agreeing to running it twice and then reneging after the turn improved him and the casino saying they could not enforce player agreements so I doubt they would ever enforce this.
Where was this ?

And was business allowed in casino or did you make a private deal?
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:45 AM   #37
smoothcriminal99
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Where was this ?

And was business allowed in casino or did you make a private deal?
The one I’m referring to happened at commerce.

Player asked once or twice. I said twice is good. Dealer deals the turn pretty quickly. Player stops the dealer after the turn and says we didn’t agree on anything yet why did you deal that. At commerce business was allowed but since dealer didn’t verify before ripping the card it was considered “between us”. When I asked why the dealer ripped the card if we hadn’t agreed yet I was told I have to stop the dealer if you want to make a deal. The absurd part is this was at 5/5/10 and maybe a 2-3k pot and I had played 20/40 with the guy so I remember thinking I got lucky we hadn’t had a real all in when he pulled this angle.

Guy had the nerve to ask if I wanted two rivers lol.

Had a worse ruling at parx about running it multiple times but that place is a shithole in a **** city so I feel like I got lucky because I’ll never go there again.

Also had a dealer refuse to use the last card on the last river of a 2nd board in 5 card I think at either Mgm or Maryland live I can’t remember when they had done it all night so floor ruled only 1st board counted…. The guy was a friend and looked at last card and gave me half the pot but that was the worst as the pot was by far the largest.

I only go once from now on.

Last edited by smoothcriminal99; 10-15-2021 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 10-15-2021, 10:44 AM   #38
FrankTheTankTapper
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

I think it’s standard not to use last card.. I’ve had it at fw where they reshuffled the stub or the burns or something and re dealt the last card on a 2 board run out at 5-10plo.

That’s crappy villain angled you or reneged on deal or whatever.. I heard commerce is known for that type of shady behavior
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:54 AM   #39
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

Ya it’s Maryland law you can’t use the last card but they had probably done it like 5 times that night with other dealers and a ton more in the past, waited until we agreed to run it twice showed who won the 1st board (him), dealt the turn for second board that left him dead to 2 outs called the floor over and refused to reshuffle burns even though we both asked for it or for us to look at the last card so we could settle it off the table other player had to grab it from the muck after the hand or offer any other solution besides your out of luck they should have never started dealing second board or dealer agreed to facilitate it cause there’s not enough cards.
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Old 10-17-2021, 08:42 AM   #40
borg23
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99 View Post
The one I’m referring to happened at commerce.

Player asked once or twice. I said twice is good. Dealer deals the turn pretty quickly. Player stops the dealer after the turn and says we didn’t agree on anything yet why did you deal that. At commerce business was allowed but since dealer didn’t verify before ripping the card it was considered “between us”. When I asked why the dealer ripped the card if we hadn’t agreed yet I was told I have to stop the dealer if you want to make a deal. The absurd part is this was at 5/5/10 and maybe a 2-3k pot and I had played 20/40 with the guy so I remember thinking I got lucky we hadn’t had a real all in when he pulled this angle.

Guy had the nerve to ask if I wanted two rivers lol.

Had a worse ruling at parx about running it multiple times but that place is a shithole in a **** city so I feel like I got lucky because I’ll never go there again.

Also had a dealer refuse to use the last card on the last river of a 2nd board in 5 card I think at either Mgm or Maryland live I can’t remember when they had done it all night so floor ruled only 1st board counted…. The guy was a friend and looked at last card and gave me half the pot but that was the worst as the pot was by far the largest.

I only go once from now on.
what happened at parx?
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:07 PM   #41
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player View Post
Simple situation:

5/5 PLO with Rock.
I have middle set on draw heavy board, guy bets all-in on the turn, i call.

Now he stops the dealer who is about to deal the river, and asks me if i wanna go twice. I usually always do, but the guy was a bit annoying to the whole table all the time before that already, tanking a lot, berating other people's play, stuff like that), so i think for a while but then decide to agree (was a big pot).

Now as soon as i agree, the guy says: No, then we go once.

I call the floor over, argue that this should first of all be binding (he offered, i accepted), and on top of that it's an angle, because he gets information from me and then changes his mind (probably based on that information, or just to **** with me, don't know). To clear things up: Don't really care about 1 or 2 rivers, but thought the behavior was at least questionable.

Floor rules no, it's not binding, we go once.

Thoughts?
if this is at the commerce its not binding. in fact the casino has nothing to do with run it twice agreements and will only honor/defend the first board in a big dispute. also, this is a guy you definitely should want to play with and he gained no information.
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Old 10-18-2021, 03:46 AM   #42
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

I wouldn't have called the floor in this situation because I don't care if we RIT or not and this guy was obviously just trying to annoy you. I'd just shrug and go 'OK cool once then'.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:26 AM   #43
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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I wouldn't have called the floor in this situation because I don't care if we RIT or not and this guy was obviously just trying to annoy you. I'd just shrug and go 'OK cool once then'.
Probably the wisest course of action, but didn't think about it in that moment
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:44 AM   #44
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

RIT 'negotiations' typically don't end until the Dealer starts to put out card(s) .. hopefully with a double tap of the table to begin the process.

Angle? Maybe, but by the way you describe the opponent this goes right along the lines of business as usual. I would've expected a change in stance to fit right in with this Player's previous conduct.

Why should Players do anything for the camera if the casino (some casinos) really has no way to enforce the agreement? There are casinos in Vegas that have 'twice' buttons that get tossed out. In my home casino the 'twice' button gets tossed out as an indication that the BBJ is 'off' due to the RIT as neither Board is 'now' eligible to win it.

I had my first 'deal' ever at a casino table last week. I 3-bet shoved the Flop in a PLO hand and the last Player left asked if we could run it for less. This is allowed in this casino and I agreed to his offer and took down a larger pot (with risk) than I would've otherwise. He stated that he folds if I refuse the offer.

With this being in a decent sized line of RIT threads it shows that it adds to the dynamic of a table/game/room, stirring up even more emotion along the way. Since the reasoning and 'goal' of RIT is different for a lot of Players it only complicates the discussions .. and then we see here where it may even have been used as an angle/tool to wind up an opponent (we don't know for sure). GL
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:12 AM   #45
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by answer20 View Post

I had my first 'deal' ever at a casino table last week. I 3-bet shoved the Flop in a PLO hand and the last Player left asked if we could run it for less. This is allowed in this casino and I agreed to his offer and took down a larger pot (with risk) than I would've otherwise. He stated that he folds if I refuse the offer.
funny stuff, def. feels more like a "home game situation", never heard before any official casino would allow that ...
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:15 PM   #46
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
what happened at parx?
Long story but the short of it is we agreed on 3 boards. Dealer deals 2 boards and I guess they have plaques that say how many times your running it there. She put on the 2 board plaque which I thought just meant more than once. Floor rules were doing whatever the plaque says even if it’s not what we agreed on.
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:30 PM   #47
borg23
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
RIT 'negotiations' typically don't end until the Dealer starts to put out card(s) .. hopefully with a double tap of the table to begin the process.

Angle? Maybe, but by the way you describe the opponent this goes right along the lines of business as usual. I would've expected a change in stance to fit right in with this Player's previous conduct.

Why should Players do anything for the camera if the casino (some casinos) really has no way to enforce the agreement? There are casinos in Vegas that have 'twice' buttons that get tossed out. In my home casino the 'twice' button gets tossed out as an indication that the BBJ is 'off' due to the RIT as neither Board is 'now' eligible to win it.

I had my first 'deal' ever at a casino table last week. I 3-bet shoved the Flop in a PLO hand and the last Player left asked if we could run it for less. This is allowed in this casino and I agreed to his offer and took down a larger pot (with risk) than I would've otherwise. He stated that he folds if I refuse the offer.

With this being in a decent sized line of RIT threads it shows that it adds to the dynamic of a table/game/room, stirring up even more emotion along the way. Since the reasoning and 'goal' of RIT is different for a lot of Players it only complicates the discussions .. and then we see here where it may even have been used as an angle/tool to wind up an opponent (we don't know for sure). GL
Mind boggling that this is actually allowed.
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:32 PM   #48
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99 View Post
Long story but the short of it is we agreed on 3 boards. Dealer deals 2 boards and I guess they have plaques that say how many times your running it there. She put on the 2 board plaque which I thought just meant more than once. Floor rules were doing whatever the plaque says even if it’s not what we agreed on.
that's pretty bad but i'm not sure why you would think a board that said 2 meant anything but twice.
did your opponent try and scum you or was he still cool with 3?
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:18 PM   #49
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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that's pretty bad but i'm not sure why you would think a board that said 2 meant anything but twice.
did your opponent try and scum you or was he still cool with 3?
Opponent and I both said we need another board when she stopped at two. She said I thought you guys were going twice and refused to do it. I think she even said I don’t want to chop the pots into thirds or something like that which really set me off. Don’t think I’ve ever had a more annoying/disrespectful dealer at a casino to begin with so didn’t help with dealing with her. I hadnt played there enough to know their procedures to be honest. Thought they just used that for any running multiple times since never ran 3 times before there and that’s how it was other places that used plaques they just use it when there’s business.
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:24 PM   #50
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Re: Offer to run it twice (after getting accepted) binding???

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Opponent and I both said we need another board when she stopped at two. She said I thought you guys were going twice and refused to do it. I think she even said I don’t want to chop the pots into thirds or something like that which really set me off. Don’t think I’ve ever had a more annoying/disrespectful dealer at a casino to begin with so didn’t help with dealing with her. I hadnt played there enough to know their procedures to be honest. Thought they just used that for any running multiple times since never ran 3 times before there and that’s how it was other places that used plaques they just use it when there’s business.
that's really awful and surprising. sorry you had to deal with this bs.
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