Playing in a card room in Houston last night and the table had agreed to a round of UTG straddles. Ran into this:

I'm on the button
Player A in the SB
Player B in the BB
Player C is UTG
Player D is UTG +1
Player E is UTG +2

The hand ends with Player A getting stacked and he informs the dealer he's done for the night. The dealer moves the button in front of his empty seat and asks Player B to post the SB and Player C to post the BB.

Player B informs the dealer that the button should advance to him because it is unfair for me to be on the button twice. I asked the dealer if the normal routine would be to have a dead button and he said yes and called the floor to confirm.

The floor decided the button should advance to Player B, Player C would post the SB, Player D would post the BB and Player E should post the straddle. He confirmed the room recently changed the rule because no player should have positional advantage twice in a row. I left it alone.

I asked him later in private if he thought it was advantageous to not have to pay the BB one orbit, to not have to play with the positional disadvantage that comes with the SB or share the responsibility of a round of straddles. I got the deer in the headlights look.

Is this normal?

i'd rather see C pay the BB this hand and the SB next hand on the button. player B should pay his SB on the button.

Not normal, you're correct in that is a bad/dumb/wrong way to do it.

Everywhere else I've seen, you have to pay both SB and BB. Some places have a dead button, others will always move the button but then have a SB on the button and 2 BBs (next hand is SB on the button, then SB and BB, then back to normal).

As time said, there are basically 2 ways to do this:

1- Dead button, where one player may get to be effective button 2 or more times in a row, and you may play a hand without a SB

2- Forward moving button, where no one gets to be button twice in a row, but you end up with players posting the SB on the button twice, and three blinds twice in a row (SB, BB, BB; then SB, SB, BB)

There should not be any way that Player C gets to skip their BB. (This may happen in tournaments, however.) Doing this was almost certainly a mistake on the part of the floor. He was likely trying to do a FMB but didn't really understand how to do it.

While the straddles were also an issue for you given the table agreement, that doesn't really enter into the equation for the floor. If they use a FMB, then one player will end up missing the straddle, and possibly several people if they don't allow a straddle after the three blind hands.

Both ways of handling a SB bustout have their advantages and disadvantages. I tend to prefer the dead button, but the FMB does create a little more action.

Generally if they changed the rules to advance the button every hand, then every player is still responsible to pay small blind and big blind. Since it’s an unofficial round of straddles, you don’t treat the straddle as a blind.

If they simply advance the button and have the blinds pay out as normal, I think it is more fair to simply have the dead button.

Any chance this is in Australia? I have seen rooms there where they advance the button without using hthe "moving button" rule, meaning people can skip their BB in certain situations.

Basically... no it's not standard to do it the way OP describes. Either the floor was confused or that room has some non-standard rules which is always possible.

That would explain the whole “Houston we have a problem” thing.

Since it’s Texas, there isn’t any gaming authority that has a say so I guess whatever the room wants to do is fair play. Personally I think every house rule that allows for players to skip the BB is bad. There should always be a better (or at least less bad) way.

The typical scenario is for the Button to be 'dead' and 'you' can't back straddle, if allowed in that room, since technically the B seat is empty. Sure you have position, but if the B had folded, you'd still have position anyway .. and the Blinds (and Straddle) act after you PF as well.

I would prefer that the B move forward, this is 'mostly' done in AZ, but not very many other places in the US that I've played at.

The issue here is the Straddle .. and I would like to see the Floor get involved here. Player D is in a bad spot here if the table insists that they not be allowed to 'skip' the Straddle chips. In order to break back into the proper cycle you need two double posts, which would require Player D to post the Straddle AND a dead BB in the middle for the next hand since E is technically UTG with the B on Player B.

This means Player D would have both dead BB and Straddle chips out there and not be last to act .. very unfair to the Player. So if you insist that the B must be on a Player dealt into the hand, then Player D better be wiling to accept a small screwing here IMO.

Next Hand: Player B post live SB on the Button
Player C post live BB
Player D post dead BB in middle and live Straddle chips
Player E post Straddle, last to act

Following: Player C post live SB on the Button
Player D post live SB
Player E post live BB
Player F/B post Straddle

The cycle is back to normal the next hand with D on the Button, no post.

In the moving B scenario, Player D should only have a live BB out there in the 'next' hand after Player A's bust, but since the Straddle is on we need to figure out how to 'force' Player D to pay all three amount and still try to get back into the proper cycle.

So now you see why a Dead Button is the preferred method, especially if the Straddle is on. GL

I prefer a fmb rule but if room uses db then just don’t move the button. If the button is the “dealer” an empty seat dealing makes little sense. If needed button can actually move in reverse.

No one misses blind and no one pays them twice. Also allows some to sit and buy button if they want. If you want to add a can’t straddle again rule ok but I find that unnecessary

Because it is unfair to miss a BB or SB I would have done the following:
Player B on the BTN would post a dead SB
Player C as SB would also post a dead BB (actually it would probably be better to post a BB and a dead SB)
Player D posts a BB and misses his straddle (I think it is a stretch to have him post a dead straddle but if he wants I would allow a dead BB and a regular straddle).
Player E Posts a straddle (so in theory there could be two straddles of the same amount).

The next hand it all goes to normal where C is BTN, D is SB, E is BB and F straddles.

One time at Artichoke Joe's in CA we had a SB posted on a BTN, and two BB's. If I remember correctly there was also a kill pot (like a straddle). It was LHE with only 7 players so basically everybody was incented to see the flop.

When I lived in California, all of the games used a Forward Moving Button rule. The small limit games allowed people to skip blinds when this happened, while the mid to large games would not let anyone skip blinds. Every once in a blue moon you'd even get a trailing small blind, where the player in the cutoff would end up putting up a SB.

I suspect that California's use of the Forward Moving Button rule grew out of the old "Button Charge" system, where, instead of a rake, the player on the button was the one who paid the house for the hand. You couldn't have a dead button because someone had to pay for the hand, and you couldn't charge the same person two hands in a row, hence the forward moving button.

I am confused. Neither FMB or DB if done right forces anyone to pay blinds twice nor does if cause skipped blinds.

Agree.

Move the button forward,
SB on the button, BB, straddle, straddle,
next hand SB on the button, BB, BB straddle,
next hand SB on the button, SB, BB, straddle,
next hand back to normal.

Houston underground games have had the forward moving button rule in place since the limit games were replaced with no-limit many years ago. Some of the new time-rake rooms have adopted the rule. Some haven't. Most of the games are 1 3 so no one is worried about any player skipping a $1 or $3 blind since it is totally random on when it will occur.
In the 15 30 hi lo limit games they still use the dead button rule or blinds posting on the button because the blinds are larger and more significant.

You don't skip any blinds with a forward moving button.

Not in an optional straddle game.

If they agreed to straddle and the room uses forward moving button...
It's time for two straddles now, or the agreement is off.

^ In the casino I worked at, they would never allow such a configuration in a game where the stake wasn't officially changed. So in a 5/10/20 game that's how it would go, but in a 5/5 game where everyone agreed to a round of straddles it is still considered an "optional" straddle.

It's been optional all along. Anyone could break the agreement anytime.

So...time for two straddles now, or the agreement is off.

I’m sure you understand that it might not be allowed by gaming and could get a dealer suspended.

Here is an example. Seat one is small blind and busts on the hand. He gets up. The button should be on seat one, but there is no player there,so we move the button to seat two. Seat two just skipped the small blind. Seat 3 is the small blind. He would have been the big blind, so he also skipped a blind.
This is standard procedure and no one is concerned that the players skipped a $1 or $3 blind .
Sure, we could make seat one post small blind on button and have two big blinds, but that is not the way it is done . Players are used to this and usually no one even questions it.

^ That’s very non-standard for FMB. Might as well do a dead button.

So, basically, because its a low stakes game and the player's aren't informed enough to question it, you do it the easy, but incorrect way and let people skip their blinds.

And then in a higher stakes game like you mentioned above, you would do it the right way because in that game the blinds, I guess......matter more?

Localized entirely in Houston and specifically in low-stakes games. You know, "standard procedure".

That's not how FMB works.
Seat 2 posts his SB on the button and there are 2 big blinds.
Next, SB button, SB, BB.
Next all normal.