Cash game, seat opens up in the BB. Player sits and asks if he can wait two hands and let the button pass. Do you allow it?

I do not have a problem with it, we are in argument about it between our floors (some are too old school IMO). I see it a bunch at WSOP but that doesnt really mean much for the rest of the world.

If you don't allow it, player puts down his chips, says he is going to the restroom, comes back in two hands.

It's not a big deal.

If you allow new players to enter the game without having to post if they're not in the BB position, you have to allow this. BDHarrison said it best. Are you really going to make him go through the physical motions of walking around for two hands? Just allow it.

Almost every room that doesn't require a new player to post would allow this, otherwise the player just waits an extra moment to sit down.

One room I worked in had a rule for a while that if the player put his chips down he could not wait (well he could wait but he would get a missed blind button) and if he didn't put his chips down his seat was subject to be taken by player changing seats... So if the player wanted to lock up the seat he would be in the game ... if he didn;t care about he could wait.

Chips on table means you are in the game! I would make him stand there and wait until the deal had started on the 'BB' hand before putting his chips down. And even then he is subject to buying the button in the next hand if you want to be a wiener. 'Missing' the SB seems to be treated with much less vigor than the BB.

OP works charity rooms, so 'rules' typically lean towards the regs. Let's just make sure that the Dealer and Floor let him know what a Nit he is via some kind of comment and let the Button pass without issue. Typically 'these guys' already know what they are doing, sometimes you just have to remind them that you know what their doing as well.

"Oh, so you don't want that seat? ... I have a list." GL


PS .. On the flip side, if I'm sitting at that table I appreciate the head start on getting an image lined up for the sitting player when they make this type of comment.

I want to play in your room.

Yes, you let him wait for button to pass, then treat him like he just sat down (posting if needed in that game for a new player).

I don't like seat changers who take up 2 seats waiting for the perfect button positioning while another new player stands around waiting. In my perfect room, if there's a player waiting to sit down who will start playing immediately, then you take the seat now, or the new player gets it.

So same would be true here. If new player wants to wait, then he is subject to losing the seat if someone else wants to move there. This is usually not a problem in my room. If your room is filled with lots of annoying seat changers, then maybe you need a different strategy, where seat is locked up once new player puts his chips down. He can still wait and come in behind button though.

There's really nothing you can do about it. If he wants to wait, it's his option. You can't force him to play his BB on the first hand.

What I do hate, however, is when a new player sits down in the BB, and while he's taking his chips out of the rack some dealers will ask "Are you playing your BB or do you wanna wait?"

That imo is horrible. If your a dealer and a new player sits down in the BB, PLEASE assume he's playing and ask him to post his BB. If he insists on waiting he will let you know. It's one of my biggest pet peeves when dealers ask him if he would rather wait until the button passes.

I find it odd that would advocate for this approach. In my opinion, this procedure would amount to the cardroom itself pulling an angleshot in favor of regulars who know the house rule, i.e., this room does not require new players to post. Imagine being a new player or out-of-towner, having the dealer ask you to post, and then having a regular sit in five minutes later and not post. That wouldn't feel fair.

Actually the player sitting in the BB is the one player I always ask. And there is a reason for it.

When I don;t ask the guy who sits in middle position and I deal him a hand .... if he tells me he doesn't want a hand (before looking at it) I just kill his hand and move on. But if Do this with the player in the BB I can't just kill his hand because he was the BB.... we need to have a BB.

Now I don't ask him if he wants to wait ..... I just ask him if he wants to take the blind....


And yes we have some players who want to wait in middle position. In the limit games its far more common(in fact often limit players get annoyed if you ask them ... of course they want to wait 7 hands what do you think they are "stupid") ... in fact I have seen limit players sit in the hijack and wait because they want to come in on the cutoff.

I'm only talking about when he sits in the natural BB for his first hand. Of course we can't make someone post to come in a non BB spot when posting isn't required.

I think Rapini means even in the natural BB. A new player might see it as unfair if he didn't know he had the option of waiting.

I like psandman's precise wording of just asking if the player wants to take the blind. I favor yes-or-no questions for speed anyway.

Have you really never seen a player in other positions announce they want to wait for the blind to pass?

This is why I prefer the rule that a new player has to post to come in.

I was always told the reason rooms started to not require posting was that it got players into the action quicker.

But my experience has been that at least with day shift regulars it often has the opposite effect with players waiting for the button topass so they get the most free hands. Now that I no longer see limit games and I don;t work day shift I can usually get the player right into the action just by dealing to them (even the regulars -- except for a few ultra nits) but the day shoft coffee drinking crowd is different.

very rarely

in a time raked game, yes.

There are an awful lot of things being conflated here.

1. I don't get the "it opens up angles" crowd. Is there any poker market, outside of maybe Vegas, big enough that dealers can't tell who is new and who is an angleshooting reg? And even in Vegas dealers probably know the local angleshooters (but they'd fail to identify the visiting angleshooters). Defending against angleshooting is in general a really bad way to set policy.

2. I don't get the "it speeds up the game" crowd. The only time I can see this argument holding weight is in a shorthanded game, where the next person refuses to post his BB N-handed but will play N+1-handed. In this case I can see the utility in forcing someone to play their natural BB (mitigated by my suspicion that UTG will nit quit anyway, of course). Otherwise, new players should of course have the option to wait.

The exception is for new games, where people should get buttons as soon as they miss blinds.

3. I don't understand the OP's question. Is he asking whether this is procedurally allowed by the room, or whether this is a good rule to have?

I've never played anywhere where waiting for the button to pass was not allowed. And locally, some people let the natural BB pass to post "in between" (post a BB between the SB and BTN), so I definitely expect that dealers should ask.

As for whether it's a good rule, I'm more or less neutral. I am always inclined towards rules that disfavor nittery, but on a practical level if you disallow it people will just crawl to the table to avoid their BB, so I'd just allow it on a practical level.

Even in rooms where a new player most post before they get a hand ... some players will opt not to take the natural big blind, prefering to post behind

Why does your preference for having to post or not have anything to do with how the rake is taken?

Personally I always prefer the rule that a new player has to post to get a hand.

bc everyone else paid their time already.

Still don't get what paying time has to do with paying a blind.

it seems we're talking about two different things. The thread is about a new player, who starts his first hand in the natural big blind, if it's OK for a dealer to ask him if he would rather wait a couple hands and come in after the button (whether it's for free or posting).

If it's a time game, it would make sense that a player would have to post a big blind to come in the game from any position, rather than getting to come in for free.

I would rather a dealer assume since he's sitting in the natural BB he's going to post and ask small and big blinds to post for the next hand. I see dealers do it both ways, either assume or ask if he would rather wait. I prefer they assume he's going to post in the BB. If he doesn't want to, he's free to ask the dealer to deal around him.

Yes I know what thread is about. Still don't see any relationship between when a player posts or not and how the house is paid by the players. Does anyone else understand what he is getting at and could possibly explain to me in a different way?

The house is paid by the players in the form of a rake. A rake is either a percentage of the pot (usually 10% with a 5$ max per pot in the north east where I mostly play, or could be 4$ max elsewhere) or a "time rake". In a time rake, each player throws a 5 dollar chip to the dealer who takes it from each player in lieu of a pot percentage for each down. That is how the house is paid by the players.

When a new player sits down, and he happens to sit in the natural big blind for his first hand, some dealers will say "Do you wanna come in or wait". In my opinion (granted, I'm a poker player so my opinion might be slightly biased), the dealer should just assume he is willing to post his natural BB and deal the hand. I really don't like when some dealers would say "Do you wanna come in now, or wait". I would prefer they just say "Blinds up small big" and deal out the hand.

No dealer should ever assume a BB will be posted, because if that player doesn't want to take a hand a misdeal must be declared, and sometimes action has already proceeded well beyond the UTG player before the issue is discovered, causing a huge problem which will require a floor call and probably some players to get irritated. And this will all be the dealer's fault.

If no BB is posted, the dealer should always, always verify with the player that they intend to post the BB before dealing them the first card, or failing that definitely not give them a second card until it is confirmed.

You originally said you had an issue with the particular phrasing, which I find kinda pedantic but whatever (and I also like psand's phrasing). But I definitely disagree that a dealer should assume anything about any BB and just deal the BB in, particularly one where there is a higher than normal likelihood the player may well not want to post it at that time.

Separately, I don't think that rake vs time is what really controls whether a new player needs to post. The primary difference is limit vs NL. In limit, the size of the blind is substantial compared to the pot sizes. In NL, playing for stacks, that is not the case. This is why you can in general let people come in for free in any non-BB position in NL, but shouldn't ever do it in a limit game. I know that some rooms make a distinction by time vs. rake, but I feel that is a misunderstanding of the underlying issue, personally.

We are talking past each other again. I know well the two ways houses get paid, I have played lots under both systems. I also know that some places require players to post, while some let them come in for free. And that some players will pay right away, others will wait until the most advantageous position to begin play. Just don't get what the payment system has to do with either the second or third things.

All the dealer needs to do is say "Blinds up small big" prior to dealing out the hand. If the player doesn't wanna post his BB, all he has to do is say "I'll wait".
By "assume", all I mean is the dealer would ask for the blinds to be posted. This is where if a player wants to wait, he has every opportunity to speak up. This is how the good, speedy, most professional dealers handle this spot.

Let me put this another way.

A new table just opened up. Decks are washed, and the dealer is ready to draw for the button. Button is drawn. Should the dealer then ask the BB "Do you wanna post now, or wait?" Why would this be any different?