Most pointless poker termonology discussion you will see today - Poker Card Room

Board runs out A347T with three hearts (no straight flush possibilities). One player tables K2hh, other player tables Q5hh.

Is the Q high flush the 'second nuts', since it is the second highest possible flush, and no hand better than a flush is possible on this, or do all Kxhh combos count as separate hands?

This discussion cam up in a low stakes MTT, and it took 3 minutes of my life I will never get back.

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05-03-2018 , 11:30 AM

AngusThermopyle

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

This discussion cam up in a low stakes MTT, and it took 3 minutes of my life I will never get back.

So you posted it here so we can lose 2 minutes of our lives?

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05-03-2018 , 11:44 AM

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,331

Is the ace on the board a heart?

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05-03-2018 , 11:54 AM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Discussions like these are why poker is dying. You might as well teach people to count combos and then discuss how it fits into your range.

I usually say something intentionally dumb like, "I don't care whether another hand COULD be better, this is the stone cold nuts in THIS situation."

And then gleefully watch the nerd rage about how I don't even know what I'm talking about.

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05-03-2018 , 12:16 PM

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

do all Kxhh combos count as separate hands?

There are no other Kxhh combos if someone already has K2hh.

I feel for you if you actually tried to explain this to someone that disagreed. You certainly wasted your time.

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05-03-2018 , 12:16 PM

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,429

Is K2s the nuts or not because all other Kxs hands of that suit beat it?

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05-03-2018 , 12:55 PM

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,773

It's possible for QXHH to be the second best hand at showdown but not the third best, therefore I'm calling it the second nuts and any KXHH to be the nuts.

If you want to make the conversation even more frustrating, bring up the case where the board is all hearts. Q5HH is still the second nuts but can be beaten by any possible KH combo, none of which could be the nuts.

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05-03-2018 , 12:57 PM

SpewingIsMyMove

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 3,529

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle

So you posted it here so we can lose 2 minutes of our lives?

Yes. I am a jerk

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05-03-2018 , 01:11 PM

Bene Gesserit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

Nah! Not a jerk! Maybe you do have a lot of extra time on your hands today.

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05-03-2018 , 01:15 PM

#10

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,773

The title of the thread was very clear - stay away if you aren't drawn to these discussions like catnip. You had a choice to stay away, unlike the other players at the table in the OP who were forced to hear it.

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05-03-2018 , 02:34 PM

#11

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reducto

Speaking for myself, I wanted to find out what 'termonology' meant.

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05-03-2018 , 04:11 PM

#12

mn_trader

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 516

I usually just throw out "Yeah, but if it was Omaha, it would only be the 4th nuts"

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05-03-2018 , 05:49 PM

#13

MJ88

veteran

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,994

Most accurate thread title in a long time....

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05-03-2018 , 06:34 PM

#14

2pairsof2s

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,612

Just think what a great thread this could be if it was in BBV.

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05-03-2018 , 07:15 PM

#15

homerdash

banned

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,062

in Holdem, it's the 2nd nuts because a flush can only be made with one suit, but that won't stop OMCs from arguing differently because of Stud/Draw.

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05-05-2018 , 02:46 PM

#16

RockyMoose

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 418

I've seen (well, we all probably have) people get really worked up over conversations like this. It's kind of awesome.

FWIW, I'm on team "Qh hand is the second nuts".

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05-05-2018 , 07:35 PM

#17

jonchillmatic

temp-banned

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 398

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reducto

The title of the thread was very clear - stay away if you aren't drawn to these discussions like catnip. You had a choice to stay away, unlike the other players at the table in the OP who were forced to hear it.

I lol'ed

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05-06-2018 , 12:12 AM

#18

SetofJacks

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,378

QhXh is the second nuts because it's impossible for more than 1 player to beat it.

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05-06-2018 , 12:35 AM

#19

Koss

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Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

QhXh is the 2nd nuts but the correct amount of time to spend discussing it is 12 seconds.

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05-07-2018 , 02:32 AM

#20

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,902

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reducto

If you want to make the conversation even more frustrating, bring up the case where the board is all hearts. Q5HH is still the second nuts but can be beaten by any possible KH combo, none of which could be the nuts.

I don't understand this. Why could no Kh combo be the nuts?

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05-07-2018 , 03:08 AM

#21

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't understand this. Why could no Kh combo be the nuts?

Sorry you're right - KH6H would be the nuts.

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05-07-2018 , 04:19 AM

#22

Reducto

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,773

No wait - it wouldn't be the nuts as it could be beat by 2H5H.

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05-08-2018 , 12:40 AM

#23

GiantBuddha

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,909

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't understand this. Why could no Kh combo be the nuts?

Because only Kh5h blocks all straight flushes, but the other player (Qh5h) is holding the 5h, so Kh5h is impossible. In this case, both players have the effective second nuts, but Khxh is also the third absolute nuts, whereas Qhxh is the fourth absolute nuts. (Though if you want to be super specific, Qh5h is the twelfth absolute nuts, counting all the combos of Khxh and Qhxh, which are of course mutually exclusive.)

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05-08-2018 , 09:47 AM

#24

answer20

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Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,853

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

Board runs out A

347T with three hearts (no straight flush possibilities). One player tables K2hh, other player tables Q5hh.

Is the Q high flush the 'second nuts', since it is the second highest possible flush, and no hand better than a flush is possible on this Board, or do all Kxhh combos count as separate hands?

I think only one person actually answered your question, sort of. Assuming the Ah is on the Board 'all' KhXh hands are considered 'singularly' the nuts since there is only one Kh and it doesn't matter what the kicker is .. as long as it's a heart!

The first 'un-shared' heart is what matters. The highest possible un-shared heart would be the nuts and so on ... GL

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05-16-2018 , 02:27 PM

#25

donkey xote

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 577

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove

Is the Q high flush the 'second nuts', since it is the second highest possible flush, and no hand better than a flush is possible on this, or do all Kxhh combos count as separate hands?

If all the Kxhh combos count then so do all the Qxhh combos above yours! I mean, you're the only one who knows you have the Qh.

That's how I troll tables who have these sorts of discussions.

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