Given his comments, what do you think his reraising range was?
(Against a player who will only reraise with AA, KK, or maybe QQ, yes, I'm definitely folding JJ to an allin reraise).

Lol I assumed most would pick up on the reference.

It's kind of funny to keep seeing people completely miss the point when clearly i wasn't saying "lol not +EV", but "lol, I agree. If you fold aa pre with this reasoning, you fold pretty much anything at any point if you have any understanding of just how far ahead AA is preflop".

"I didn't hit my draw the last X times, this time I'll hit for sure"

Don't mean to sound trollish, but this is the standard gambler's fallacy that 90% of people in casinos believe.

But again, you miss the point the guy making the statement was saying. It was that he didn't want to bust *this early*. So no, you can't logically deduce that he would fold 'pretty much anything at any point'. Nice try though.

In case you don't get it: Maybe he just doesn't like going AIPF for some reason--maybe he would after the flop because he's gotten more play and a 'story'. Maybe he 'knows' he's going to lose all his money, and is willing to go all in with crap after an hour and a half or so, but not now, on one of his first few hands. Again, lol with claiming you aren't talking about EV, and then analyze his play (and what he should do in other situations) using ... EV.

OMFG if you can't see that it is absurd to 10x AA and fold to a reraise regardless of motivation, I don't know what to tell you. You are acting like the story was he opened pre and folded AK to a reraise when his opp showed him JJ and OMG he had 43% equity and only needed 38% to call whattttadonk.

It's not EV, it's playing like a complete buffoon. If he wanted to play a few hours, play limit, THEN move to NL once he has his vag prepared for the horrible realities of getting AA allin pre headsup for 100 BB. ORRRRR if he only likes NL, play 1/2 and your $500 will last longer. ORRRRR open shove the AA. ORRRR just fold them if the experience of just sitting at a table with other poker players is sooooooooooo awesome.

when talking about a poker hand, "at any point" should be assumed to refer to streets and not time. im not sure what your motive could be, but it seems you're misunderstanding things on purpose.

yep, maybe he just doesn't like going AIPF for some reason. obviously. maybe you're right that I can't logically deduce blah blah blah because the guy lacks a properly functioning brain, so what's your deal? I felt like comparing folding AA pre to some postflop situations based on equity even if it's not a comparison that's 100% relevant. I thought I was discussing on 2+2 with fellow serious/semi-serious poker players, and not with morons who will defend folding AA preflop to maximize cash game life as non-absurd poker thinking to their last breath.

Given what the player said his goals were it dies make sense. Take the pot with the overbet most of the time. He is then still in the game and he showed a profit on the hand. Once he gets shoved into then he folds because he wants to stay. Not a good play from an EV view. It's a "donkish" play. But without knowing what our players utility function is, we can't say anything about whether this persons play was +EU. Or his decision to sit in a NL game as opposed to a FL game. Once again, a few people ITT are missing that some people play for different reasons. It might help your game to realize that earlier rather than later

You were talking about his strategy. But I also did, as you do seem to have read, addressed your points about folding later in the hand.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make the other person a moron. No need for namecalling, especially when the person you're calling a moron in your post is in all likelihood smarter than you.

And the award for claiming to be smarter than other people while misspelling simple words and mangling basic logic until it cries like a baby goes to...

God that's hilarious. I'm posting from a phone which likes to overaytocorrect and it is also pretty weak in it's editing capabilities. (it just overcorrected it's for instance). But hey, you've just added yourself to the list of people who don't get it. Congrats.

Peace

So is ANY motivation at the table offlimits for attacking as absurd? What if my goal is just to play any hand that I can make the hand A-2-3-4-5-6 and yell YAHTZEEEE!!! so I call 1/3 of my stack pre with 25o? Or if I fold any hand but 23o, continue with 23o as long as I have no pair, b/c my sole motivation is to showdown confidently while yelling NUT LOW! Or if my goal is to make a club flush, then diamonds, then hearts, then spades, so I fold everything that isn't suited clubs until i do, chase until i hit, then start diamonds?

At some point a motivation in and of itself is idiotic and absurd. An incompetent implementation of such a motivation just adds to the fun.

Idiotic thinking would be doing something that doesn't maximize utility because of a misunderstanding. For instance folding AA because there are five other people in the pot and AA is not a favorite to win (assuming as most of us do that ones goal is to make money at the table). Our villain told us what his goal was, and that was what made him happy and he took steps to ensure his happiness. We may differ on what makes us happy and make fun of him because he doesn't happen to share your particular worldview, but his thinking was not incorrect.

Playing at my local casino, I open from mp with AK, short stack in blinds insta shoves (not a skilled short stacker, the sort that buys in min then keeps rebuying min no matter what) I call, he turns over QQ and goes im miles ahead, I try explain its 55/45 to him and, he goes no as other players at table will have had A and K so he is mathmatically 80/20 and bitched when i flopped an A. (he didnt ask if anyone had an A or anything just this was his logic)

I then asked would you rather go all in with 88 or AK (bearing in mind in live no one stacks off with worse than QQ 100bbs deep) hes says 88 every time.

XX always hits for me
you have to defend your blinds
I always loose with AA (and AK, KK, QQ, JJ, etc.)
TJ is the best drawing hand
I never loose with XX
You play like a donkey, fish, etc.
I had you beat pre flop
I put you on XX (when XX beat opponent the whole way)
I am due
I have to keep you honest
I need another drink

Is this preflop w/ AA? Not a favorite because 5 players are in the hand? Bahawaahhahaahaaa!!!

i know tons here are real.. but u do realize some go out of there way to say some crazy things to make your op think u are a drooler.

A friend of mine on the final table bubble of a 1k event bets 6 bbs out of his 8 bb stack with kks and u know obv gets the rest in on the flop and some guy said why didnt u just go all in preflop and without missing a beat my friend says well if an ace flops i can fold and still have chips and did it with a serious face... the guy said yeah that makes sense...

lol i think i actually did piss my pants.

i can see old guys thinking like this but my friend looks barely 18 and has over 250k in profits online.

Not a favorite to win. Definitely +EV but less than 50% to win. Try again

Edit. I think you also misread. I said stupid thinking is X. Here's an example of stupid thinking. Sorry if I misread your post, but it did look like you were laughing at me...

there is always nittery over the term 'favorite'. You can be less than 50% to win, but still be the favorite. And I got AA allin 5 ways two weeks ago, pokerstoved it when I got home and was 53% to win. Opponents had KK, QTs, AQo, and J9o.

your hand does become marginal on any flop 5 way tho.... hell even 3 or 4 way it becomes marginal unimproved

If you want to maximize the probability of sticking around for at least 60 orbits, then open-folding everything is the right move, DUCY?

Cue the most ridiculous thinking you have heard on 4 thread.

If for whatever reason you actually get enjoyment from yelling yahtzee, moreso than winning money, and you play accordingly, that's your priority set, and you are making reasonable decisions GIVEN THAT SET OF VALUES. If there's a guy out there who wants to play 54 because his grandfather died on May 4th and the enjoyment utility he gets when it wins as a way to honor his grandfather is worth more than whatever amount of money he has on the table, more power to him, and when he plays 54, best of luck. He's not thinking about the money, but as others have said and I will repeat - some people play poker for other reasons besides money.

The "thinking" that gets mocked in this thread are players who think that a move actually helps them win money, such as players who think "these cards are lucky" or "AK never wins since it's no different than 76".

You are making two points here. First you are mocking the fact that a person is overly concerned with busting out too early, and I don't know how else to try to explain to you that to some people, poker is more than JUST maximizing money, and this guy clearly wants 3 or 4 hours of entertainment. Yeah, he probably should be playing limit or 1/2, but maybe he really WANTS to get all $500 of it in after an hour or two, who knows, the point is, that's his utility curve and it's perfectly acceptable given that curve.

However, your 2nd point is completely on-point, because his actions in the hand were ******ed even given his utility curve. Since he's so concerned with staying a while, raising 10xBB with 1/10th of his entire stack (that he is so concerned with getting all of it in) and then folding to a raise is absolutely dumb. Either open-shove and take the blinds down, or limp/fold, or even just fold.

As for why he shouldn't just fold everything for the first few orbits, I'm going to guess he wants to play pots, he just doesn't want to get everything in for the first few orbits. A good poker player can take advantage of this by shoving in any pot heads-up with this guy for the first few orbits since he will fold, but players who either don't know this or aren't good enough may still play a pot with him without getting to an all-in - especially if he's folding to any raise pre-flop, the only hands he'll get into will be limped pots, so there's a good chance he can get into pots that don't involve all-in, unless the other player knows to shove to induce a fold.