$2-5 game
V1 raise $25
V2 3-bet to $90
V1 flats
flop AAK
V1 checks
V2 very very drunk says to dealer, is there a BB jackpot
Dealer yes
V2 what over what?
dealer Quads beat must have pocket pair in hand.
V2 how much
Dealer over $160k, $80k to loser $40k to winner, rest divided up
V2 I got quad Aces ALL-IN for $900 more
table grumbles at him
V1 folds KK face up
Table really pissed now
ask V2 why?
V2 if he's going to have a chance at $80k it should cost him!
DUH why should I let him hit it for free?

Blatantly fake story.

Plus he may have just invalidated the jackpot by talking about it and telling what cards he has.

I was the V1
Daytona Beach 2010-2011 snowbird season

I hit it in Feb 2010 , I had the winner in a 24k BBJ , I got 6k

got back to FL that winter and it hadn't been hit since

V2 tabled his AA and shoved his chips in
I tabled my hand and said fold
I wasn't stacking off on a 1 outer no matter what the math odds stated
900 to call to either lose the pot or lose the pot but collect 80K

no thanks

V2 is correct, and V1 made a massively negative EV fold.

Yeah V1 can’t be this dumb.

Ask his Wife
She'll confirm he is

Except....

So wait is this the part that's the most absurd poker "thinking"?

He was going for the straight or 3 of a kind.
Plus, he knew he might have been wrong about AA & KK
This is called bluff-catcher equity.

I’ve been re-reading this thread for the LULz.

I played live today and the board was AKQ2. I was hoping somebody would have the 3 for the “wrap-around” straight but everybody folded

This is called constructing a complex, incorrect explanation for a simple phenomenon.
(He just wanted to gamble.....)

My only concern would be the discussion of the BB somehow voiding it even if it hits. Otherwise, yes, massively -EV to fold.. He has roughly 4.5% equity of the 80k jackpot which is about $3600, and it's costing him $900 to call. I guess I wouldn't totally fault someone for not wanting to stick in $900, not knowing what their bankroll situation is, in a super high variance spot. It's a slam-dunk GII with the kings though, as long as the table talk hasn't disqualified the BB jackpot. I know taxes would need to be paid on the jackpot, but you're still left with a very +EV spot.

Yes, the 25% automatic withholding, plus the additional 10-25% in federal and state taxes you'll pay on the jackpot win. And the tip. And the EV lost while you wait for it to be verified. And the bankroll issue you mention.

Straying away from thread title a bit ...
1) The 'automatic' withholding is for federal income tax, not sure if dinesh meant to duplicate the federal or not after the comma. (Yes, professional gamblers would owe full FICA/MED on top of the income tax.) You definitely would want to make a State Income Tax voluntary deposit before you file your return ... Most states don't like surprises, or shortfalls, when you file.

The backdoor to this is to have your Social Security card with you and then you can waive the automatic withholding. It takes another form to fill out but can happen. Obviously most of us don't carry that around with us but I know a few tournament players who have it with them for larger tournaments.

2) Most BBJ promotions have language that prohibits any discussion 'during the hand'. Thus the famous 'Flamingo' word that can pop up in Blind v Blind spots when they would normally chop. In most cases Surveillance would really have to press for verification of any comments made during the hand. Would anyone (Dealer/Player) really admit to something that may void the BBJ? But an exposed hand would certainly be hard ignore 'on the tape'. GL

IANATL.

25% is automatically withheld, but you owe federal taxes on it according to your actual tax bracket for the year. Winning a large enough jackpot can easily put you into a federal bracket that owes more than 25%, especially if you're single. (Though the reverse is also true, if you in a bracket taxed at less than 25% you will get a refund for the excess amount.)

There may be a backdoor to avoid automatic withholding (though this is the first I am hearing of one, all the online sources say there must be an automatic withholding of 25%, or 28% of you don't provide a TIN), but there is no backdoor to avoid paying the tax you owe on the winnings. And unlike regular poker winnings where no one other than you really knows how much you won or lost, if you win a jackpot you will get a W-2G, and you can bet the casino is going to file it with the IRS on you.

We are on same page. Not sure where the tournament guys are getting their information but it clearly states that poker tournament winnings in excess of $5000 over the buy-in 'will' be subject to withholding at 24% and end up on a W2-G.

The BBJ would come down to how they classify it. If it ends up on a 1099-Misc, like a High Hand, then it could slip through without withholding. But there's also a clause about 300x the wager and I'm not sure how they would classify a wager for a BBJ jackpot.

Yes, you always 'owe' tax, it's just a matter of how and when you pay it. GL

You wouldn't think so. You also wouldn't think that it's that difficult to send a new player to the table of that stake with the fewest players, or checking the transfer list before seating new players, but those seem to be as easy as they appear they would be.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Some guy today bluffed all-in with an OESD on the turn; hand was 3-ways and the 3rd player was all-in on the flop. I called with top pair and the nut flush draw and scooped when I rivered trips. All-in player flopped 2-pair.

Guy showed the OESD and my jaw hit the floor and immediately blurted out "What! Why would you bet that?!"

And he said "well I had get rid of the competition with my draw to the nuts!"

Uh huh. First of all, your draw was not a draw to the nuts. And what did you think you would accomplish if I folded? Beat the all-in player with 9 high if you didn't make your straight? Wow.

i was playing online. there was a 3 way pot. one shorter stack was all in and the other two had a decent amount size stacks behind. the two remaining players check it all the way to river. there is no side pot. one of the remaining players jams all in with 5 high on river. why? you're not stealing a side pot? if you get called your toast? your not stealing the main pot with 5 high? why are you jamming 45s into a 3 way pot with no side pot and no chance to win main pot? makes no sense. the board was like 23qjt and he had nut low.

Some of these just have to be levels

GD .. Although very fishy, I'm not so sure that he's 'absurd' in his logic.

If you could increase/guarantee your outs by 25% would you do so?
If you could 'maybe' also make your cards live (6 more outs), would you do so?

For the most part we know that this thinking in the long run is a stretch for sure, but it is thinking that we want at the table.

I would probably get scolded for either one of two things here by the regs as well ... One, you want him to shove so be a gracious winner. And two, no teaching at the table! GL

Dean,

These players build big stacks by getting involved in huge pots (without much equity). They remember the times they have a massive stack compared to the rest of the field. The days where things go their way justify in their mind that they're going it right. Please stop telling them that they're doing it wrong. They are literally dumping money into the prize pool every week with very little chance to win. Why are you trying to stop that? That's the absurd part, as usual.

I know I know, I try to be, but my comment just burst out of my mouth without even thinking.

This was a cash game btw, and his shove was quite the overbet after the first player went all-in already. I actually tanked for a while thinking it's very possible he has a set and I only have flush outs, so yea, immediate flabbergasted reaction when I saw his hand.

Most tournaments I've seen (save wsop) give you bonus chips for pre registering.

If you make it to the second day of a tournament do you think your chips should only come into in play when you get there?